Montana Mule Deer Mismanagement

[brockel]

Them’s fightin words..

I thought I was generous with the boarder

 

[rogerthat]

This thread has devolved. Let’s get back on topic. This was killed in a general for Wyoming residents unit. Contrast that with Montana general Why?

 

[Gerald Martin]

This thread has devolved. Let’s get back on topic. This was killed in a general for Wyoming residents unit. Contrast that with Montana general Why?

Freaking Noresidents and MOGA, MCS Lobbyists (Ben Lamb in particular), guys that try to change the season structure, resident hunters that go West to East with 6 plates on their vehicles, and lions, woofs and grizzlies. Lots and lots of woofs. CWD, drought, and poor habitat. Oh, and billionaire landowners who don’t allow DIY access to hunt. ( also working ranchers who don’t allow access to hunt)

Basically, the only Montana has going for it is an OTC general license with a 5 week rifle season that encompasses the rut. We get that right. Everything else in the previous paragraph is why MT doesn’t regularly produce deer like in your picture.

 

[Gerald Martin]

As a side note, I spent a long weekend hunting elk in one of the most popular areas in region 3. I saw 12 bucks over the weekend and about 25?does. Only 6 of the bucks were spikes, 5 were forked horns and there was one old warrior troll 3 1/2 year old 4x4 that was at least 18” wide. Might have been 2 1/2 years old but for sure 18” wide with 4” tines.

MT has great quality deer available to hunters. I don’t know why everyone is complaining about the mule deer hunting in MT.

 

[Forkyfinder]

I know what isnt the solution - making hunting season even longer, not meaningfully reduce anyones opportunity, and privatizing more elk harvest. Much can be done about mule deer - but itd take a conversation with sacrifice. Ideally treating them similar to antelope - given they are comparably easy to hunt in a world with long range rifles.

A simple 2 week only general season from the existing date would have been a lot more palletable and ended on a date thats 2 days different than the "grand proposal" that was saving the world of montana hunting.

Seems - strange - that so much needed to change to do anything for mule deer?

 

[rogerthat]

Freaking Noresidents and MOGA, MCS Lobbyists (Ben Lamb in particular), guys that try to change the season structure, resident hunters that go West to East with 6 plates on their vehicles, and lions, woofs and grizzlies. Lots and lots of woofs. CWD, drought, and poor habitat. Oh, and billionaire landowners who don’t allow DIY access to hunt. ( also working ranchers who don’t allow access to hunt)

Basically, the only Montana has going for it is an OTC general license with a 5 week rifle season that encompasses the rut. We get that right. Everything else in the previous paragraph is why MT doesn’t regularly produce deer like in your picture.

Yes…and/or…. Could it actually be simpler? This buck and others like him, yes there are more, obviously not quite as big, don’t get shot rutting on their winter range.

The majority of Montanans don’t support a change to season timing. That’s a fact. The season will not be changed ever. Fact. Opportunity is the goal in Montana Fact. However the point of my post is that there is an opportunity cost to everything.

I have seen a lot of arguments/excuses, MT doesn’t have the habitat, MT doesn’t have the genetics, all the bucks would get shot anyway, blah, blah, blah. When you rut hunt, seeing,interacting and maybe even hunting a buck like that is the cost. This can’t happen because they don’t exist. That’s my only point. Every state that doesn’t general rut hunt has a handful of these mega bucks. This is also a fact. I have seen it with my own eyes.

 

[MTTW]

This thread has devolved. Let’s get back on topic. This was killed in a general for Wyoming residents unit. Contrast that with Montana general Why?

Because we over hunt our mule deer bucks when they are at their most vulnerable. Everywhere, even LE areas.

 

[Gerald Martin]

Yes…and/or…. Could it actually be simpler? This buck and others like him, yes there are more, obviously not quite as big, don’t get shot rutting on their winter range.

The majority of Montanans don’t support a change to season timing. That’s a fact. The season will not be changed ever. Fact. Opportunity is the goal in Montana Fact. However the point of my post is that there is an opportunity cost to everything.

I have seen a lot of arguments/excuses, MT doesn’t have the habitat, MT doesn’t have the genetics, all the bucks would get shot anyway, blah, blah, blah. When you rut hunt, seeing,interacting and maybe even hunting a buck like that is the cost. This can’t happen because they don’t exist. That’s my only point. Every state that doesn’t general rut hunt has a handful of these mega bucks. This is also a fact. I have seen it with my own eyes.

No. Montana has lots of mega giants and a rut hunt. Hunters are just lazy and need to lace up their boots and hunt harder. (Not fact).

 

[rogerthat]

Let me add, when I started this thread I thought Montana deer management needed to change. This thread has had a lot of good info posted. I have spent way more time than I should have thinking and studying something I will never have even the slightest control of. I have learned a lot. I’m not even sure I want the current season to change anymore after thoroughly and selfishly weighing the pros/cons of change. But to argue that an opportunity cost doesn’t exist is flat horsechit and doesn’t square with the reality you can see by getting out of the state and hunting other places. Hopefully that clarifies things before I get characterized as just another “trophy” hunter with an opinion that isn’t righteous like all of the rest of us taking our little kiddos hunting for meat.

Ps I got a couple kiddos (I call them trollocs) and they eat meat faster than a family group of starving coyotes.

 

[Song Dog 2224]

I’ve ran into more people this season than any other, and I’ve talked to more hunters archery hunting cows/spikes/incidental deer this season than those with a bull tag, including lots of NRs. Reports have all been the same about how bad the deer and elk hunting has been and how the pressure seems record high (in places this thread is referencing without saying).

Rather than not going archery hunting or going somewhere general, groups of folks are going to their preferred LE area and increasing pressure, while just trying to fill a general tag on a cow/spike/deer. I get it, archery hunting is fun. Seems to have made a huge impact on the quality of the LE bull hunt on public land though. You can bet they will be back with a rifle for that 130”-150” mule deer buck or 12” antelope they saw or missed while chasing cows and spikes with a bow, as many of them have said so.

Some guys said they are scouting for their buddy’s rifle bull tag, some guys said they are just trying to learn the country for a future bull tag, some guys like the easily accessible country and lack of grizzly bears, and one guy from Missoula with a full film set and a crew on its way was trying to film a week long ‘backpack’ deer hunt for his YouTube channel. Many of them had never been there before, and were disappointed in the pressure, hunt experience (for cows/spikes), and quality of bucks and bulls observed (compared to previous reputation, general unit hype, and social media posts they see).

One NR had drawn the bull tag twice in 3 years. I know multiple residents that have gone 3+ years without drawing, including some that live there. One camp of 4 or 5 NRs were all just trying to kill cows and spikes on a general tag.

I’d imagine some of those NRs/Rs are going home with a bull or buck in the dark of night as well, as I heard reports of guys finding bulls with their heads cut-off, but those bulls could have been wound/loss and found by someone else too, and hard to say it was nefarious.

I think the general tag cow/spike archery thing in a LE unit needs to go away on public land, and that it is hurting the deer and antelope hunting, but I’m likely in the minority there. This is likely better suited for a “Montana Limited Entry Elk Mismanagement” thread though, which I feel will be coming in the next 5 years.

I think I need to self reflect a little and get back out in the woods.

 

[cgasner1]

This thread has devolved. Let’s get back on topic. This was killed in a general for Wyoming residents unit. Contrast that with Montana general Why?

I wonder when the last time someone from a entirely different state spent and entire summer scouting a buck in Montana that was in a general unit.

 

[cgasner1]

I know what isnt the solution - making hunting season even longer, not meaningfully reduce anyones opportunity, and privatizing more elk harvest. Much can be done about mule deer - but itd take a conversation with sacrifice. Ideally treating them similar to antelope - given they are comparably easy to hunt in a world with long range rifles.

A simple 2 week only general season from the existing date would have been a lot more palletable and ended on a date thats 2 days different than the "grand proposal" that was saving the world of montana hunting.

Seems - strange - that so much needed to change to do anything for mule deer?

2.5 years later I still like our idea best you wanna know why? WE ARE STILL THE ONLY ONE. Everyone should do this or that or all these groups should get together yet no one has done jack shit. I wonder if more keyboards have been killed in this thread than deer at this point

 

[TOGIE]

The majority of Montanans don’t support a change to season timing. That’s a fact. The season will not be changed ever. Fact.

Doesn't have to be a fact forever.

The name of the game in Colorado was OTC opportunity for decades. Many Colorado hunters absolutely shrieked like Low T Bozeman fly fishermen at the sight of a spin rod when the decision to go full limited and make rut hunting a special privilege in the 90's became reality.

Yet here we are

 

[rogerthat]

Doesn't have to be a fact forever.

The name of the game in Colorado was OTC opportunity for decades. Many Colorado hunters absolutely shrieked like Low T Bozeman fly fishermen at the sight of a spin rod when the decision to go full limited and make rut hunting a special privilege in the 90's became reality.

Yet here we are

Right. I don’t think I want it to change haha. Got two boys I want to take hunting someday. I think I probably came across as poor me which is totally not the case. Love the low t Bozeman reference!!