Montana Mule Deer Mismanagement

[DFS]

If we never change management regardless of where people are hunting, what the populations of animals are, what the bull to cow ratio or buck to doe ratio is there could be a lot of jobs eliminated and things would just continue it’s downhill decline on its own. Adaptive management at work. The most restrictive management we could possibly go to would be everyone gets to shoot a buck and everyone could potentially hunt in the same district any given year. A complete free for all is a surefire way to privatize wildlife, maybe that’s what we are going for.

 

[RobertD]

How in the world did they get those numbers for how much people spend in a day of mule deer hunting. Counting hotels? I could see it if you stay in a hotel and eat out every meal. But I doubt enough hunters do that to make it the average. Seems high.

 

[Laszlo Cravensworth]

The idea behind “mandatory reporting” is that it’s cheaper and gathers data from more hunters. But it doesn’t quite work that way, says Gude, because many hunters don’t comply.

After evaluating other states’ hunter harvest survey methods, he found that compliance ranged from 85 percent in Washington to only 10 percent in Oregon.

I don't believe a single number in that article:
"ODFW used to get this data through phone surveys but these became more difficult and expensive as hunters moved or screened their calls. While reporting has been mandatory since 2007, reporting rates dramatically improved (from about 40 percent to 80 percent or more) when a penalty for not reporting was added in 2012."

Report hunt results by Jan. 31 – Avoid the $25 penalty for not reporting on deer and elk tags

 

[pigsticker]

As a non-resident I have been hunting Montana (mostly eastern) all of my life and this year undoubtedly was the worst I have ever seen for, not just quality, but numbers as well (it seems to be progressively getting worse over the past decade). On public access land, in some places, I saw more hunters than deer. I bought my son a youth license in hopes we could find him a nice mature mule deer for his first muley buck...you could forget that notion. Definitely had a couple opportunities to fill the license with a forky, but they weren't bouncing around everywhere either. Something needs to be done, eastern MT is getting hammered and it is glaringly obvious. And the elk hunting in the breaks isn't anywhere what it used to be either. I don't understand what is going on with Montana's management, but it definitely isn't headed in the right direction for sportsmen's interests in my opinion.

 

[antlerradar]

As a non-resident I have been hunting Montana (mostly eastern) all of my life and this year undoubtedly was the worst I have ever seen for, not just quality, but numbers as well (it seems to be progressively getting worse over the past decade). On public access land, in some places, I saw more hunters than deer. I bought my son a youth license in hopes we could find him a nice mature mule deer for his first muley buck...you could forget that notion. Definitely had a couple opportunities to fill the license with a forky, but they weren't bouncing around everywhere either. Something needs to be done, eastern MT is getting hammered and it is glaringly obvious. And the elk hunting in the breaks isn't anywhere what it used to be either. I don't understand what is going on with Montana's management, but it definitely isn't headed in the right direction for sportsmen's interests in my opinion.

Maybe just maybe we are getting close enough to rock bottom that hunters will demand a change. Is that a small glimmer of light in the dankness or is it a train coming down the track to flatten us out once again.

 

[brockel]

Maybe just maybe we are getting close enough to rock bottom that hunters will demand a change. Is that a small glimmer of light in the dankness or is it a train coming down the track to flatten us out once again.

Definitely more talk around here of lack of deer and quality around Baker. But mention restricting license sales and shortening seasons and you better duck. Lots want change but don’t want to give up anything for it. The blame always falls on non residents even if it’s residents who are just as guilty

 

[Deleted member 53219]

I’m seeing more talk about how bad things are too, but yeah no one wants to give up opportunity. Shouldn’t matter what people don’t want to give up though, should be managed for the good of the resource, not the “tradition” or “opportunity” or revenue. Plenty of ways to make more money too. Sure hunters will be angry for a little while, but the sting of higher priced tags or mule deer buck tag drawings and drawing fees or no shooting does on public land will wear off quicker than we think and people will be accustomed to it for the next year. Wishful thinking I guess.

 

[brownbear932008]

Definitely more talk around here of lack of deer and quality around Baker. But mention restricting license sales and shortening seasons and you better duck. Lots want change but don’t want to give up anything for it. The blame always falls on non residents even if it’s residents who are just as guilty

Bingo, it's that the whole system is a train wreck in totality. It's only going to continue to get worse.

 

[8andcounting]

Definitely more talk around here of lack of deer and quality around Baker. But mention restricting license sales and shortening seasons and you better duck. Lots want change but don’t want to give up anything for it. The blame always falls on non residents even if it’s residents who are just as guilty

Yup - I mean I’m sorry but the change has to start with residents looking in the mirror lots talk about how bad it is but like you said Brockel, when it comes down to change that might affect their opportunities then it’s just oh: the darn NR’s

Also I’ll as that I do think some changes should be made for NR too specifically b tag sales , but they shouldn’t just be re sold to a R either . B tags need to be cut

 

[8andcounting]

Not to derail this thread but I will be very curious to see what the NR draw odds will be this year for the general tag . With inflation and the cost of everything including fuel , plus add in that maybe some people are realizing the hunting is crap on public mostly might make some folks jump off the bandwagon . Who knows I guess . I’m thinking apps will be down slightly

 

[bigsky2]

Not to derail this thread but I will be very curious to see what the NR draw odds will be this year for the general tag . With inflation and the cost of everything including fuel , plus add in that maybe some people are realizing the hunting is crap on public mostly might make some folks jump off the bandwagon . Who knows I guess . I’m thinking apps will be down slightly

It seems like there will always be someone waiting in line to shoot a two to three year old mule deer during the rut, no matter how bad the hunting gets.

 

[Carnage2011]

Talked to a friend yesterday that called me to ask about nonresident hunting pressure. Said he had seen a crazy decline over the last couple years and their family struggled to fill all their doe tags last year. He said 4 years ago they shot 17 does and two bucks. I gave him the resident/non resident tag breakdown and then explained that residents are a huge part of the problem. He disagreed and said he seen 50+ vehicles with Washington plates last year and they were killing everything that moved. His theory is that residents should only take a tag cut once we’ve reeled in the nonresident tags. In his opinion, the legislature keeps making loopholes for non residents to get more tags while residents are having to self regulate to make up for it. I don’t see many residents self regulating.

 

[Carnage2011]

Not to derail this thread but I will be very curious to see what the NR draw odds will be this year for the general tag . With inflation and the cost of everything including fuel , plus add in that maybe some people are realizing the hunting is crap on public mostly might make some folks jump off the bandwagon . Who knows I guess . I’m thinking apps will be down slightly

Inflation will have no impact. We will still sell out easily and draw odds will continue to get worse. There is a lot of money in the hunting world and the majority of hunters just want to go hunting and shoot something. Lack of quality doesn’t seem to deter many people.

 

[Frequently Banned Troll]

He said 4 years ago they shot 17 does and two bucks.

with a straight face?

 

[Carnage2011]

with a straight face?

Well we were on the phone…but yes he was dead serious. It’s quite a situation. He pulls a 30’ camper out with his entire family and they stay for like 3 weeks. But those nonresidents….

 

[Deleted member 53219]

Talked to a friend yesterday that called me to ask about nonresident hunting pressure. Said he had seen a crazy decline over the last couple years and their family struggled to fill all their doe tags last year. He said 4 years ago they shot 17 does and two bucks. I gave him the resident/non resident tag breakdown and then explained that residents are a huge part of the problem. He disagreed and said he seen 50+ vehicles with Washington plates last year and they were killing everything that moved. His theory is that residents should only take a tag cut once we’ve reeled in the nonresident tags. In his opinion, the legislature keeps making loopholes for non residents to get more tags while residents are having to self regulate to make up for it. I don’t see many residents self regulating.

17 does, probably out of the same little area, and he wonders why he has seen a decline in deer numbers. But I don’t believe it’s our job to patrol and scrutinize our fellow hunters for going out and having a good time legally on their public lands with a license FWP sold them. That’s not our role. It’s FWP’s fault for selling them those 19 deer tags and expecting everything to be ok, and changing very little every year. If you have a legal tag in your pocket, go knock yourself out

 

[Carnage2011]

17 does, probably out of the same little area, and he wonders why he has seen a decline in deer numbers. But I don’t believe it’s our job to patrol and scrutinize our fellow hunters for going out and having a good time legally on their public lands with a license FWP sold them. That’s not our role. It’s FWP’s fault for selling them those 19 deer tags and expecting everything to be ok, and changing very little every year. If you have a legal tag in your pocket, go knock yourself out

I agree. But don’t act like the only issue is nonresidents..

 

[Deleted member 53219]

I agree. But don’t act like the only issue is nonresidents..

Oh no I totally don’t. We’ve got more “residents” than we’ve ever had, all getting a general deer license over the counter, but have made no changes to our deer management. There’s a lot more “new residents” out there hunting then traveling NR.

 

[cgasner1]

Oh no I totally don’t. We’ve got more “residents” than we’ve ever had, all getting a general deer license over the counter, but have made no changes to our deer management. There’s a lot more “new residents” out there hunting then traveling NR.

And these new residents aren’t use to seeing even this much game so it’s blast away

 

[Gulf of America]

I don't get the argument against raising resident prices because it'll piss everyone off. So what? Is it going to piss them off enough to vote for democrats? No. Is it going to piss them off enough to not buy the more expensive tags? No. Everyone's already pissed and looking for another thing to whine about, why not give it to em?