Montana Bison Fiasco

[The Hedgehog]

I've been awaiting this report. I was a witness at the trail. The hunter was my father in law. There were a total of 6 of us there, over 200 years of combined hunting experience. I was the greenhorn of the group. The results of the trial were a relief for sure.

Snafu as reported by the Bozeman Daily Chronicle

 

[schelmster]

Glad to hear that things turned out for the good. If it took less then an hour for a jury to return a verdict, then why could somebody in our state office not look at this case, see the problem and take care of it before it got this far. I support game wardens and would not want there job because I think they are way understaffed and under paid, but sometimes a deal like this comes up and gives the group a large black eye.


Scott

 

[Ithaca 37]

This probably shouldn't have gone to trial. When I was an Idaho Citizens Against Poaching Director I'd get involved in cases like this and sometimes point out that even the US Supreme Court couldn't figure out some of the boundary descriptions in the F&G regulations. If I could make a good argument for dropping the case they usually did. There's a big difference between real poachers and hunters/fishermen who make honest mistakes and hunters/fishermen who can't decipher some of the complicated, poorly written regulations.

Then, when I'd get a case dropped because I could make a good argument that it was a result of a poorly written regulation or boundary description, I'd take on the job of re-writing it. Sometimes it's impossible to establish every part of a boundary. F&G law enforcement officers should take that into consideration when deciding whether to give a citation. I'd get pretty pissed off when some over zealous enforcement officer wasn't using good judgement. It's usually pretty easy to tell if you have a real poacher or someone who made an honest mistake.

Sometimes I even got involved in re-writing regs that were unclear before a case came up, if I thought there was a potential problem. That's the kind of stuff a citizen's board of directors of a poaching hotline program should be doing.

 

[Bambistew]

Glad it worked out like it should have!

Where do you draw the line on 'boundaries'. Ith since you've had experience with it how do you decide 'exactly' where the line is?

We have dificulty sometimes with actual survey monuments!

173 yards?

Greeny how was the description worded? Was it one of the 'up said drainage to the divide of such and such creeks, then along said divide etc etc'? Those ones leave me scratching my head... How could you tell within 10 to 400yards at best where those divides are? Even with a topo map you'd still be guessing to get it gnats azz.

The boundary descriptoins should only be a good rule to follow and where applicable they should be followed to the T, such as along such and such road or such and such river etc something with a hard boundary, but some/most every unit description has some sort of fuzzy wording that if the chips where down you'd have absolutely no way of knowing if you where in one unit or the other 100 yards or more depending on terrain.

 

[The Hedgehog]

FWP provided 2 maps that clearly showed where we were hunting was "Open to bison Hunting". The marked boundary line that was there, didn't say closed area or no hunting, it said "hunting district boundary". There were a lot more vague details, but the kicker was the 2 and only 2 maps provided by the FWP were off by 1/2 mile. Should never have been a ticket, much less went to court, but I'm glad it did go to trial.. Proved a point loud and clear.

 

[BigHornRam]

Greenhorn,

Unfortunately your father in law's past employment with FWP made it impossible to use common sense in this situation. If it was dimissed, the anti's and some hunters would have cried that it was a cover up. In the long run the process worked, even if it was a huge waste of time and money for all involved. Thanks for sharing the story so we all can learn from it. Hope FWP learns something from it as well.

 

[BuzzH]

I'm glad it worked out, but as stated, nobody wants to have to go through the whole process.

What are the details on the condition of his bison after being in the freezer for several months?

 

[Ithaca 37]

Bambi, "Ith since you've had experience with it how do you decide 'exactly' where the line is?"

It's not always possible. Suppose the boundary is a ridge and the unit is described as "draining to the North of the ridge bordering the South side of Pine Creek", but the top of the ridge has flat spots in it that are two hundred yards wide.

Ridges are the worst boundaries, but we sometimes have to use them.

 

[The Hedgehog]

I saw a photo of Rich on the B&C website today. He entered it into the records book. It had a score of 124 6/8, making it the 7th largest ever recorded from the state of Montana, including picked up heads. Pretty neat. Buzz, the meat was processed and it's pretty good. I've eaten a bit of the burger and it's better than the rest of the stuff in my freezer.

Here's a picture from the B&C website.

 

[Bambistew]

I guess my dads buddy killed a big on on New Years day. He said it was B&C, but I haven't seen any pictures of it yet.