Ladder Test for finding powder charge

[Frequently Banned Troll]

My son’s rifle didn’t like the eldx as much , but not too bad.

 

[Frequently Banned Troll]

Not sure I'd do that again, especially starting so far below the max listed book value. I prefer accuracy, but I don't think i'd settle for 150 fps lower than I can go with the shorter barrels. I graphed everything out on excel, and it looks like maybe the best "node" for a flat velocity and verticle change across a couple charges, a low ES of 2 and good group of 2 is at 53.2 grains of RL26. But I'm going to stick with the best (lucky) results I had at very near book max of 55.6. It's 100+ fps faster. I'll try 10, and suspect it should be at the "good enough" quality. Will be using once fired and properly sized cases for the 10 shots. Today was new brass on my rifle.

It's really hard to put much stock in 2 shot numbers.

I used H1000 in my sons rifle and it sure is slower than I expected, and the ES/groups, etc were not what I was hoping for. I'll switch to RL26 and shoot a few 5 shot groups at the upper end of the spectrum next time.

 

[Drake4]

I'll ask a dumb question, what else are you guys doing if not ladders?

Choosing a Long Range Hunting Load

Choosing a suitable long range hunting load can take time. It might also require a certain amount of perseverance. This installment on the 300 Winchester Magnum Project will cover how I narrowed do…

panhandleprecision.com

This is the method I have always somewhat followed. It’s always seemed to work really well for me and have been able to find very accurate/consistent long range loads pretty quickly. This guy at Panhandle Precision just always made sense and broke things down simply. When I was first learning I followed his stuff pretty closely and have had great sub .5 moa results with multiple rifles.
I’d listen to Carl though!

 

[Wind Gypsy]

The bullets I loaded are about like that not much different BTO than Hornady factory loadings of same bullet, just a touch seated out - I’m just under .020” off jamming into rifling on both rifles.

I expected to hit pressure and have to pull a few bullets tonight, but no signs of pressure even a ways over max listed load.

The shooting went well aside from some gusting winds that may have impacted it a little, but at only 300m still some useful data. Will plot out on the node nonsense and report back. The sample of two is almost meaningless but hopefully my choice for a 10 shot test tomorrow pays off I suspect this one from my rifle and also a 2fps velocity difference between the two. #11
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Good example of the different “node” methodologies not really lining out. For people looking for a flat spot in velocity, that’s definitely flat across 55.3-55.6 gr. But from a ladder test looking at elevation, 11 looks like the worst charge in the picture from an elevation standpoint but the two bullets are touching at 300 yards.

Not a critique, just an observation of things people tie themselves in knots over “tuning” a load but really it’s small sample size random distribution.

If it’s a 20-22” barrel, that low 2900s velocity seems like a reasonable place to be.

 

[Frequently Banned Troll]

Good example of the different “node” methodologies not really lining out. For people looking for a flat spot in velocity, that’s definitely flat across 55.3-55.6 gr. But from a ladder test looking at elevation, 11 looks like the worst charge in the picture from an elevation standpoint but the two bullets are touching at 300 yards.

Not a critique, just an observation of things people tie themselves in knots over “tuning” a load but really it’s small sample size random distribution.

If it’s a 20-22” barrel, that low 2900s velocity seems like a reasonable place to be.

This, 100%. Pretty sure I won’t ever do this again, and the time spent and shot count could have been greatly reduced for what I got out of it. Given 300 meter shots, 2 each in some variable gusts of 8-10 mph wind, doesn’t add any real solid info on where the bullets land. The little chrono sure gives good input generally, but I could have got that same info, with a couple shots in my garage.

I was able to tell from the velocity readings that I wasn’t going to consider that combo in my son’s rifle. The velocity spreads I was seeing w/RL26 in my rifle were not bad. I’m going to load up 10 at the touching group with 2fps velocity change and try it. It’s at a good velocity to be expected with a 21” barrel.

I loaded up a single 143 eldx round (seated .030 from rifling) at published max of RL26 at 57 grains. Got 2912 fps. His barrel is 20” and that sounded about right. Zero sign of pressure, so I loaded up 5 there, 5 a half below and 5 a half above. Will shoot when the wind dies down and see what happens.

 

[Frequently Banned Troll]

Also if you haven’t asked reloading or results questions to chat GPT you’re missing out. It’s pretty wild.

 

[Irrelevant]

Also if you haven’t asked reloading or results questions to chat GPT you’re missing out. It’s pretty wild.

There not a lot of questions that I don't run by chat. It just retaught me calculus.

 

[It’s Bucky]

The little chrono sure gives good input generally, but I could have got that same info, with a couple shots in my garage.

I want to hear more about how you chrono your rifles in your garage haha

 

[Frequently Banned Troll]

I want to hear more about how you chrono your rifles in your garage haha

when my neighbors are out side I tell them. I’ve got excellent neighbors. My sons rifle has a brake so it’s like a nuclear explosion. I have a ring camera which catches some mid my stupid ideas/habits.

 

[It’s Bucky]

when my neighbors are out side I tell them. I’ve got excellent neighbors. My sons rifle has a brake so it’s like a nuclear explosion. I have a ring camera which catches some mid my stupid ideas/habits.
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That is awesome!

 

[Carl]

when my neighbors are out side I tell them. I’ve got excellent neighbors. My sons rifle has a brake so it’s like a nuclear explosion. I have a ring camera which catches some mid my stupid ideas/habits.
View attachment 405066

Ha! I’ve shot inside with a bare muzzle, a brake would be nasty. Surprised it didn’t take pictures off your wall.

 

[Frequently Banned Troll]

Ha! I’ve shot inside with a bare muzzle, a brake would be nasty. Surprised it didn’t take pictures off your wall.

I looked and my ring camera got that on video.

 

[ImBillT]

A ladder test is a quick way to find decent velocity nodes. I try to do minimal tuning to avoid wasting components and barrel life. I’m short on both time and money.

Also, any load that produces similar muzzle velocity will usually have about the same POI at 100-200yds, so if using a new bullet or powder, once you know your target velocity, you can pick a load from a manual that gives you close to that same velocity and you’ll be likely to be sighted in already, and at a load that is reasonably accurate. Perfect? No. Good enough without wasting time and money? Yes!

 

[Frequently Banned Troll]

After having done that one, I can say with certainty my interest in finding a “node” is gone with the wind. I did shoot a good 10 shot group at 200m yesterday that I honed in on with a 2 shot group from the ladder test, but it was not really any node and total luck. In the future I plan to test as max published with 1 shot, then load up some in that ballpark and try a few. Kinda what I’ve done for a long time

 

[Carl]

After having done that one, I can say with certainty my interest in finding a “node” is gone with the wind. I did shoot a good 10 shot group at 200m yesterday that I honed in on with a 2 shot group from the ladder test, but it was not really any node and total luck. In the future I plan to test as max published with 1 shot, then load up some in that ballpark and try a few. Kinda what I’ve done for a long time

Glad it worked out. I agree with your conclusions, at least for what we’re doing.

 

[BrentD]

If you think the ladder test really works, then you would be able to repeat it several times and find the same nodes. I have not found this to be true.

 

[44hunter45]

I used to do a lot of ladder testing. As components have gotten so ridiculously expensive and hard to find, I've gone to this method from Steve Davis at Hammer Bullets.
I find it works just as well for lead core bullets.

I don't need to tell you this, @Frequently Banned Troll. If you find a sweet load, buy the powder you need now to make a pile of them. It may not be available next time. I'm down to less that 30 rounds of some of my pet RL26 loads. I will run up new loads soon using Viht.

Loading Process For Hammer Bullets

Steve Davis Administrator (Originally posted 2/29/2020) @ingwe asked me if I would start a thread detailing how we do load development, so here goes. With a rifle that is new to us the 1st thing we do is clean it until there is no copper from other bullets in the barrel. I recommend this...

hammerbullets.com

 

[44hunter45]

I looked and my ring camera got that on video.

Hoping to see that on IG soon.

 

[johnnybow]

I do a 10 shot string to find pressure at my chosen jump distance, then I back off about 1 grain from pressure and load up 10. If that groups, cool; if not, load up 10 more at - 1.5 grains from pressure.

Maybe give it 10 at -2 gr from pressure. If it still isn’t acceptable after that I try a different bullet or power or change both.

So do you start with a grain under book maximum to start?

 

[mtmuley]

when my neighbors are out side I tell them. I’ve got excellent neighbors. My sons rifle has a brake so it’s like a nuclear explosion. I have a ring camera which catches some mid my stupid ideas/habits.

When I first moved into my house and 5 acres we had a ground squirrel (gopher) issue. I took care of them with a.22 LR. My neighbor was kinder. He tried the method of a rodent control outfit. Waste of money. I have a 6 foot French door in my daylight basement overlooking his property. Set up the bench, open the doors and my .222 Remington vaporized gophers out to about 300 yards. Problem solved. Interestingly he never said a word about the rugged out pests. All shots were safe before anyone asks. mtmuley