Need some load development opinions

[wtrfwlhunter]

I’m new to reloading and have been working on a load for my 300 win mag. I did a pressure test, and then have more or less been following optimal charge weight method.

Gun: Tikka T3x roughtech ember with about 100 shots through the barrel
Components: Ramshot Hunter Powder, Peterson Brass, 180 TTSX, Winchester Large Magnum Primer

Last week I shot all three of these groups in a row. The target circle is .8 inches and I was feeling pretty good. I’m definitely not a trained shooter so confidence was high. Since then I have tried to confirm the loads again, but have not been able to tighten up my groups less than an inch and my point of impact is consistently left as well with no adjustments to the scope.

Like I said, not a trained shooter so my first thought is that the variation I’m seeing the last couple times is because of me, although there’s nothing I can directly think of that’s causing it. Everything else has been consistent with the loads.

I wanted to get some opinions from the brain trust here. Would you
Lean towards reproaching load development or towards variation in my shooting? 9 shots in a row less than an inch seemed statistically significant to me as an indication of good loads, but I’m starting to lose a little confidence. Interested in opinions.

 

[BackofBeyond]

If it’s not you, and it may be you, then check your rings/bases.

What’s your initial impressions of the RT Ember? @BAKPAKR is a horrible influence and he peer pressured me into buying one.

 

[wtrfwlhunter]

If it’s not you, and it may be you, then check your rings/bases.

What’s your initial impressions of the RT Ember? @BAKPAKR is a horrible influence and he peer pressured me into buying one.

Extremely impressed with the gun. It checked all the boxes I was looking for and was really the only rifle that did it without costing an additional 1k.

 

[BAKPAKR]

If it’s not you, and it may be you, then check your rings/bases.

What’s your initial impressions of the RT Ember? @BAKPAKR is a horrible influence and he peer pressured me into buying one.

I wanted @BackofBeyond to be a product tester prior to getting one for my daughter.

Those three groups in your photos are awesome. Do you have photos of the subsequent groups? I would second the suggestion to check your rings and bases, as well as the action screws. Any chance you have copper fouling after the first three groups? What kind of rest set up are you using? I have seen weird things happen with a lead sled.

 

[wtrfwlhunter]

I wanted @BackofBeyond to be a product tester prior to getting one for my daughter.

Those three groups in your photos are awesome. Do you have photos of the subsequent groups? I would second the suggestion to check your rings and bases, as well as the action screws. Any chance you have copper fouling after the first three groups? What kind of rest set up are you using? I have seen weird things happen with a lead sled.

I don’t have pictures of them, tried to wipe them from my conscious

Roughly though they are just left of the target, group size about 1.1 inches. I also got one group that was a bit bigger and in a horizontal line (???) tried to do some research on likely cause of that but didn’t turn anything up…shooting off bags both front and back.

I’m seeing 45 pounds recommended online for both front and back action screws…is this about what you other Tikka users are running?

Im not too familiar with copper fouling to be honest, this is my first real experience with a mono bullet…I’ll look into that. Could I have fouling enough to cause accuracy loss after just 100 bullets?

Appreciate the responses guys!

 

[BAKPAKR]

Barnes bullets are “soft” compared to the material used on most jacketed bullets so if you have shot 100 of them without doing a very thorough cleaning, I think there is a good chance copper fouling is your culprit.

 

[BackofBeyond]

I wanted @BackofBeyond to be a product tester prior to getting one for my daughter.

Those three groups in your photos are awesome. Do you have photos of the subsequent groups? I would second the suggestion to check your rings and bases, as well as the action screws. Any chance you have copper fouling after the first three groups? What kind of rest set up are you using? I have seen weird things happen with a lead sled.

Why wait? That price probably won’t last long.

Also, I will definitely have it tuned up before ya’lls hunt, she’s more than welcome to use it if Dad’s still sitting on the fence when the time comes.

 

[Addicting]

Wrong thread

 

[blueridge]

I honestly don’t see a thing wrong with those groups. What are your expectations?

You could experiment with seating depth and see if it tightens up, but if this is a hunting rifle I don’t know if it’s worth it other than for kicks.

To get super tight groups you need more than a good load and rifle; there’s all the things you have to control: trigger squeeze, consistent cheek weld, no flinchy flinchy, wind, barrel temp; and then all the variables in the reloading process: consistent neck tension, seating depth, powder temp stability, …
Makes my head hurt just thinking about all the variables that have to be perfect to come close to repeatable 1/2moa groups.

 

[antelopedundee]

I don’t have pictures of them, tried to wipe them from my conscious

Roughly though they are just left of the target, group size about 1.1 inches. I also got one group that was a bit bigger and in a horizontal line (???) tried to do some research on likely cause of that but didn’t turn anything up…shooting off bags both front and back.

I’m seeing 45 pounds recommended online for both front and back action screws…is this about what you other Tikka users are running?

Im not too familiar with copper fouling to be honest, this is my first real experience with a mono bullet…I’ll look into that. Could I have fouling enough to cause accuracy loss after just 100 bullets?

Appreciate the responses guys!

According to Barnes "mono" bullets are supposed to copper foul less because there is less surface contact with the barrel due to the circular grooves cut into the bullet. Are Tikka barrels hand lapped at the factory? Otherwise the fouling is most likely from poor surface finish in the barrel. Don't know how you clean, but get a bore guide and a bottle each of Accelerator and Wipe Out Patch out. Use a coated rod and run a loose patch of Accel thru the bore. Follow with a loose patch of wipe out. DO NOT MIX THEM IN ANY OTHER MANNER. After 5 minutes I run a tight patch with some rubbing alcohol on it. Cover your stock with a plastic bag.
I chuck my guns up in a vise like so with the muzzle angling down.

Repeat as needed until hardly any blue from copper. Don't drive yourself crazy getting every trace because it will go right back in with just a few shots. Every 8 or 10 shots I usually run several tight patches with rubbing alcohol thru the barrel.

 

[millerkiller77]

According to Barnes "mono" bullets are supposed to copper foul less because there is less surface contact with the barrel due to the circular grooves cut into the bullet. Are Tikka barrels hand lapped at the factory? Otherwise the fouling is most likely from poor surface finish in the barrel. Don't know how you clean, but get a bore guide and a bottle each of Accelerator and Wipe Out Patch out. Use a coated rod and run a loose patch of Accel thru the bore. Follow with a loose patch of wipe out. DO NOT MIX THEM IN ANY OTHER MANNER. After 5 minutes i run a tight patch with some rubbing alcohol on it. Cover your stock with a plastic bag.
I chuck my guns up in a vise like so with the muzzle angling down.

Repeat as needed until hardly any blue from copper. Don't drive yourself crazy getting every trace because it will go right back in with just a few shots. Every 8 or 10 shots I usually run several tight patches with rubbing alcohol thru the barrel.

+1 on the Wipe Out foam. It's replaced all of my Bore Tech concoctions

 

[antelopedundee]

My Wipe Out isn't the foamy kind. It's a bit like Sweets which I haven't used in ages.

 

[millerkiller77]

My Wipe Out isn't the foamy kind. It's a bit like Sweets which I haven't used in ages.

I love the foam, let it soak and wipe it off/out.
10/22 reciever & bolt face

 

[Caseknife]

@wtrfwlhunter, one thing that I have noticed is that the sling swivel studs making contact with the bags front and rear can cause issues with your shooting. Lots of time I will remove them when shooting from the bench if they are interferring.

 

[Caseknife]

I love the foam, let it soak and wipe it off/out.
10/22 reciever & bolt face
View attachment 283234View attachment 283235

Awesome advertising for Wipe Out foam!

 

[wtrfwlhunter]

@antelopedundee @BAKPAKR

Wow, that wipe out and accelerator turned out to be the trick, and apparently copper fouling was my problem.

After two shots, guessing they were what people refer to as “foulers”…put a 5 shot half moa group…three bullets through the exact same hole.

Also, put a Chrono on the load and it’s at 2960 fps.

 

[ImBillT]

There’s no reason to believe that one of the three is any better than the other.

 

[wtrfwlhunter]

Man…so if it’s not one thing it’s another…

So, post clean I got a couple foulers through and the rifle seemed to shoot extremely consistently as I mentioned above for about 10 shots. I was starting to work out on range doing some muzzle Velocity trueing.

Then the groups started opening up and point of impact shifting to the left again. I tried to not let it get to me and come back with a fresh mind.

Before I shot today I brushed it and ran a patch of Hoppes. First two shots at 200 were touching each other. Then just like last time the group opened up to about 3 inches and moved 4-5 inches left of center. I was waiting about 5-10 minutes between shots so I really thought that would be long enough to negate any over heating.

Feeling like I’m chasing my tail here trying to nail this down. How could it be shooting so small and then coming off of target so far??

I only have about about 15 shots through after cleaning with wipe out so I’d really imagine it can’t be fouling.

Any insight is much appreciated guys. I’m putting a ton of work in on this rifle for an upcoming Alaska trip

 

[wtrfwlhunter]

There’s no reason to believe that one of the three is any better than the other.

All three of those were there, those were photos of three good groups shot in a row, from there it’s opening up and moving to the left…

 

[p_ham]

Man…so if it’s not one thing it’s another…

So, post clean I got a couple foulers through and the rifle seemed to shoot extremely consistently as I mentioned above for about 10 shots. I was starting to work out on range doing some muzzle Velocity trueing.

Then the groups started opening up and point of impact shifting to the left again. I tried to not let it get to me and come back with a fresh mind.

Before I shot today I brushed it and ran a patch of Hoppes. First two shots at 200 were touching each other. Then just like last time the group opened up to about 3 inches and moved 4-5 inches left of center. I was waiting about 5-10 minutes between shots so I really thought that would be long enough to negate any over heating.

Feeling like I’m chasing my tail here trying to nail this down. How could it be shooting so small and then coming off of target so far??

I only have about about 15 shots through after cleaning with wipe out so I’d really imagine it can’t be fouling.

Any insight is much appreciated guys. I’m putting a ton of work in on this rifle for an upcoming Alaska trip

If you don't make any adjustment to your scope, does your POI return to zero upon your next outing? Have you checked your scope's mounting? Have you confirmed the scope itself is good?
If you're shooting off of a rest, make sure your sling studs are not coming in contact with the rest.

Check that your barrel is floating. I generally look for at least 3 $1 bills worth of clearance. If you have the factory bottom metal check that your action screw torque is no more than 35 in-lb.

The fact that you keep having groups drift left leads me to believe you have a scope issue.