RockyDog
Member
BigFin, let em have it on the wolf delisting. i hope you get a chance to use "you gonna pull that smokewagon, or just stand there and bleed"
I'm your huckleberry!
- Thread starter Big Fin
- Start date
noharleyyet
Well-known member
Is Wolf Blitzer available?
StrutNut
New member
I would just caution you to the fact that Don will likely have some big pocket lawyer type helping him out. Given the things that I have heard others say of Don and the groups he represents, I doubt honesty, integrity and fairness will be part of his game plan. As long as he is calling all the shots, you two will likely be debating against a stacked deck.
elkantlers
Well-known member
I would like to see some questions come from the audience. As people arrive for the debate, if they would like to have the opprotunity to ask a question they could take a number and then all the numbers could be placed in the hat and drawn randomly. That would be fair because there is no way you could get to all the people with questions.
BuzzH
Well-known member
If by big-pocket lawyer you mean that Harvard flunkie Ryan Benson...I'd not waste much time worrying about that guy.
He routinely finds new and surprising ways to step on his pecker every time he writes a memo, email, or a letter.
I think Benson got shorted at Harvard...I'd demand a refund of my tuition if I were him.
He routinely finds new and surprising ways to step on his pecker every time he writes a memo, email, or a letter.
I think Benson got shorted at Harvard...I'd demand a refund of my tuition if I were him.
I'm guessing Harvard would rather pay him to say he's from Yale...
shoots-straight
Well-known member
I don't think he liked seeing his "NON PROFIT GROUPS" taxes shown. When your raising all that money, and only 20% gets to projects, there's a problem.
Call me a sceptic, but I still don't see Peay showing up. He can't win.
Call me a sceptic, but I still don't see Peay showing up. He can't win.
What topics would interest you guys?
BuzzH
Well-known member
The wolf issue with BGF/SFW having absolutely nothing to do wth the delisting process. I'd like to a see power-point complete with the email exchanges and Bensons letter where he rallied his troops to try to derail S/T.
I'd like to hear Don try to spin his way out of that one.
His comments regarding how the NAM is "socialism"...and how he can say that when his group lobbied for and is currently receiving hundreds of public tags to fund SFW.
I'd also like some questions answered why SFW is lobbying for outfitter/landowner tags.
I'd also like to know how a supposed group that represents hunters/fishermen could ask the state of Utah to repeal the stream access law there. How Don specifically said, "Fishermen got greedy by seeking a stream access law." Really? You attempt to deny public access to public fish and water?
I'd also ask him why his dipshit attorney called many of the top sporting/conservation groups "supposed" conservation groups...you know the ones I'm talking about.
I'd like to have Don aswer some questions regarding the attempted tag grab in Arizona.
I'd like Don to answer if he did not in fact, visit with and help establish SFW affiliates in WY, CO, NM, AZ, and MT.
I'd like Don to list all the great programs they've started that "unite" hunters and bring the hunting community together to solve problems.
I'd like to ask Don why his group is giving out scholarships, purchasing tags for people, and what about that land/business they bought in Canada?
I'd like to hear more about Dons start-up high-end outfitting business...status on that?
I'd like to know how a group that supposedly has done so much for mule deer in Utah is still seeing deer declining and hunter opportunity decreasing each year.
I'd like to see one single shred of evidence that spenidng 1.3 million on coyote control is going to have any kind of significant impact on deer numbers for the better.
How about pushing the hunting on Antelope Island for starters why did SFW support it at all?...then ask why the guys buying the auction tags get a head start over the guys that luck out in the draw? How is that looking out for the average guy?
Where does the revenue go from the convention tags?
Who does the accounting?
What are Dons travel expenses per year paid out by SFW?
The list goes on and on...
Rake him over he coals on all his assorted lies....
I'd like to hear Don try to spin his way out of that one.
His comments regarding how the NAM is "socialism"...and how he can say that when his group lobbied for and is currently receiving hundreds of public tags to fund SFW.
I'd also like some questions answered why SFW is lobbying for outfitter/landowner tags.
I'd also like to know how a supposed group that represents hunters/fishermen could ask the state of Utah to repeal the stream access law there. How Don specifically said, "Fishermen got greedy by seeking a stream access law." Really? You attempt to deny public access to public fish and water?
I'd also ask him why his dipshit attorney called many of the top sporting/conservation groups "supposed" conservation groups...you know the ones I'm talking about.
I'd like to have Don aswer some questions regarding the attempted tag grab in Arizona.
I'd like Don to answer if he did not in fact, visit with and help establish SFW affiliates in WY, CO, NM, AZ, and MT.
I'd like Don to list all the great programs they've started that "unite" hunters and bring the hunting community together to solve problems.
I'd like to ask Don why his group is giving out scholarships, purchasing tags for people, and what about that land/business they bought in Canada?
I'd like to hear more about Dons start-up high-end outfitting business...status on that?
I'd like to know how a group that supposedly has done so much for mule deer in Utah is still seeing deer declining and hunter opportunity decreasing each year.
I'd like to see one single shred of evidence that spenidng 1.3 million on coyote control is going to have any kind of significant impact on deer numbers for the better.
How about pushing the hunting on Antelope Island for starters why did SFW support it at all?...then ask why the guys buying the auction tags get a head start over the guys that luck out in the draw? How is that looking out for the average guy?
Where does the revenue go from the convention tags?
Who does the accounting?
What are Dons travel expenses per year paid out by SFW?
The list goes on and on...
Rake him over he coals on all his assorted lies....
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noharleyyet
Well-known member
Any chance of Buzz moderating?
fowladdict
Well-known member
- Joined
- Aug 20, 2005
- Messages
- 2,545
I'm confused. He claims to not be on the board for a few years. Does that mean that as the principal, CEO, owner, boss, or whatever his real title is at SFW he would have no ability to "weed" through things that have gone on at SFW EXPOthe last few years?? Is that not relevant to SFW spending?
Devil Diver Down
Well-known member
As interesting as they can be, debates usually do very little to shed light on anything, IMHO. Most people choosing sides just have their original opinions reinforced because it's very difficult to 'prove' anything--just a lot of he said/she said for the most part--with both parties usually claiming victory at the end. Spin knows no boundaries.
SFW is a non-profit, with their books open on public record and you're a CPA, Randy. I'd suggest looking at the dollars brought in by the tags they've been gifted and what percentage of those dollars has gone back into public benefit. Contrast that with what other groups who get to auction some tags (RMEF, AES, etc) put back from a percentage standpoint. I suspect there will be a large difference.
Numbers might get twisted but they don't lie. I believe those numbers are there. And I believe they'd be indisputable, and via comparison to other groups, damning.
Good luck in The Great Debate II !!!!!
SFW is a non-profit, with their books open on public record and you're a CPA, Randy. I'd suggest looking at the dollars brought in by the tags they've been gifted and what percentage of those dollars has gone back into public benefit. Contrast that with what other groups who get to auction some tags (RMEF, AES, etc) put back from a percentage standpoint. I suspect there will be a large difference.
Numbers might get twisted but they don't lie. I believe those numbers are there. And I believe they'd be indisputable, and via comparison to other groups, damning.
Good luck in The Great Debate II !!!!!
DDD - Most non-profits get a financial statement audit and issue such report. Such audits are called Yellow Book Audits, referring the the yellow book that contains the Governmental Auditing Standards.
I am aware of no financial statement audit by SFW. The books of a non-profit are not open to public record. They have file a Form 990, that in summary form is available, but you can hide big things in a Form 990.
And, you can have much of your activity go through consultants and subcontractors, a place where not even the Form 990 will give you any details.
The mere fact that much is not available speaks to the issue of transparency and accountability when much funding comes from a state resource.
Here are the Utah Governmental Audit Standards for state, local, and non-profit groups meeting the audit criteria. Don't spend a lot of time 210 pages long.
http://www.sao.utah.gov/localGov/legalComp/lcag.pdf
If indeed statements were audited by an outside CPA firm, it would be very helpful for those to be made available. According to Question 12, on Page 3, of their most recent Form 990 I have, they answered that they did not have a financial statement audit.
smarandr
Well-known member
My guess is that's not truly the case. Assuming SFW qualifies as a public charity, they are required to make what's called a form 990 available for public inspection. However, having prepared my share of 990s I can tell you there's not a heck of a lot of detail you would be able to glean from it.
Looks like Randy and I were typing at the same time; and his explanation is better--go figure.
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Devil Diver Down
Well-known member
Thanks for the correction Randy and smarandr. I know I've seen financial reports of some non-profits before but I'm not sure now what the circumstances were. I was under the impression they had to have an open book policy. Well, that pretty much sinks my idea in one easy torpedo and makes any money aspect of this debate even less tangible.
I still wish you luck in this debate. I think it's near impossible to convince the birdmans of the world and the Koolaid Krew at MM that Don & SFW are full of bullchit. I doubt anyone over here will be convinced of the opposite. Maybe a public calling out will at least serve as warning to these clowns who are trying to steal public resources that people are watching, taking note and keeping track of what they're up to.
I still wish you luck in this debate. I think it's near impossible to convince the birdmans of the world and the Koolaid Krew at MM that Don & SFW are full of bullchit. I doubt anyone over here will be convinced of the opposite. Maybe a public calling out will at least serve as warning to these clowns who are trying to steal public resources that people are watching, taking note and keeping track of what they're up to.
In my mind the less tangible a companies financial records are the easier it would be to draw attention to that fact. A company that is above board won't have any problem when their accounting process is under scrutiny. A company that isn't will squirm, much the way we see SFW doing.
spook12
New member
It sounds like the DON has decided that any media must take the 3 hour tour that he has planed for Randy of SFW projects before they can cover the ''DEBATE''. Dont go Randy,a 3 hr tour never ends well. Remember the U.S.S. MINNOW?
BTROCKS
Member
- Joined
- Jun 29, 2011
- Messages
- 41
I see a road trip in my future!
devon deer
Well-known member
Referring back to my post 3, someone kindly sent me a pm and put me in the full picture.
If i go to another part of the world i always like to understand the issues facing other sportsmen.
So having said that, read my pm, and reading Ben's post and reaction on MM, i have come to my own conclusion, SFW cant be trusted, i am a master of under statement!
But more worrying, they seem very organised, to an ill informed outsider reading their website one would think they are the best thing since sliced bread.
Cheers
Richard
If i go to another part of the world i always like to understand the issues facing other sportsmen.
So having said that, read my pm, and reading Ben's post and reaction on MM, i have come to my own conclusion, SFW cant be trusted, i am a master of under statement!
But more worrying, they seem very organised, to an ill informed outsider reading their website one would think they are the best thing since sliced bread.
Cheers
Richard
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