I think I will never call myself a "shed hunter" in public

[EYJONAS!]

I wish the shed industry would just die, then it would go back to being enjoyable. There's more bullshit behavior after hunting season with people out "looking" for sheds.

 

[mtmuley]

I wish the shed industry would just die, then it would go back to being enjoyable. There's more bullshit behavior after hunting season with people out "looking" for sheds.

Hard to believe, but more dipshits look for the antlers on the ground instead of attached to the critter. Or maybe it's the same dipshits. mtmuley

 

[Art Vandeley]

The WMA opener has always been like that. Not sure why everyone here is so bent out of shape about it

 

[EYJONAS!]

The WMA opener has always been like that. Not sure why everyone here is so bent out of shape about it

Would agree with this, I'm talking about the whole picture.

Shed hunting is basically a green light to things like trespassing, animal harassment, uses of technology, on and on. With the end response being, "well I'm not hunting what's the big deal its just a bone"......

 

[Elkmagnet]

I see what you're saying about defunding it, but I don't think that market needs any more regulation than collection seasons to protect winter range.

They tried defunding elephant ivory and rhino horns by making trade illegal. It didn't work. Then they burned stockpiles publicly which only increased demand by destroying some supply. Apparently the conservation geniuses at the CITES convention never sat through the first three minutes of Economics 101 on supply and demand.

If the demand is there then people will figure out a way to supply it, legal or not. Make it illegal and the shed poacher you mentioned will make WAY more money...the price will rise and the poachers will be the only ones out there collecting sheds.

I am for making it illegal to sell. Not illegal to pick up. Seasons simply don't work in most of the west and are basically unenforceable. They leave the crooks out there for a month without any competition. Even when caught red handed there is a particular loophole that they use to get off.
Closures can work ok but are not my thing because I think public land should be open unless absolutely necessary. So they are not for the vast majority of the remaining problem areas.
Your example is missing the fact that the us has made it illegal to sell most game parts and it has worked because the sale market is mostly domestic. You police the point of sale (petco) and the market will crash. If you believe that people want dog chews as bad as they want Ivory than you have an argument but I happen to disagree.
Back when they made market hunting for meat illegal meat was the most valuable part of an animal. Now days antlers are and they can be bought and sold by the pound. You can't hand out enough tickets to offset tens of thousands of dollars in antlers.. This also might have a profound impact on poaching. Some guys "find" a lot of dead heads these days. A 330 bull is packing $400 right now. View that through the eyes of a meth head when you have a bachelor group of bulls in front of you.

 

[Elkmagnet]

Friend just got $18/lb for brown elk. Prices like that make my keeper pile less appealing to hang on to.

If someone is giving 18 you had better watch the grading because they are getting some back somewhere.
They didn't have multiple grades of brown did they?

 

[Desk Pop]

I am for making it illegal to sell. Not illegal to pick up. Seasons simply don't work in most of the west and are basically unenforceable. They leave the crooks out there for a month without any competition. Even when caught red handed there is a particular loophole that they use to get off.
Closures can work ok but are not my thing because I think public land should be open unless absolutely necessary. So they are not for the vast majority of the remaining problem areas.
Your example is missing the fact that the us has made it illegal to sell most game parts and it has worked because the sale market is mostly domestic. You police the point of sale (petco) and the market will crash. If you believe that people want dog chews as bad as they want Ivory than you have an argument but I happen to disagree.
Back when they made market hunting for meat illegal meat was the most valuable part of an animal. Now days antlers are and they can be bought and sold by the pound. You can't hand out enough tickets to offset tens of thousands of dollars in antlers.. This also might have a profound impact on poaching. Some guys "find" a lot of dead heads these days. A 330 bull is packing $400 right now. View that through the eyes of a meth head when you have a bachelor group of bulls in front of you.

It is not illegal to sell many game parts, just meat.

If a guy is shooting a 330 inch bull elk illegally he would somehow not dare sell antlers because it is illegal?

If a guy is buying and smoking meth he will refrain from selling antlers to make money for it because it is illegal? The honest, law-abiding meth head?

If there is a demand for antlers, whether it be dog chews, chandeliers or dildos, people will find a way to sell them. Will the demand be the same as rhino horn which has been of cultural significance in the East for thousands of years? No. But if people are willing to pay for something there will be people there to sell it, illegal or not.

Making antlers illegal to sell will simply drive the price up and people will do dumber shit than they already do to get them.

 

[thomas89]

I thought of getting into the shed thing a while back.

My wife shut it down when I started using terms like “brownie”, “hard white”, and “chalker”. If I could go back I’d probably kick my own ass.

 

[Elkmagnet]

It is not illegal to sell many game parts, just meat.

If a part becomes problematic it should made illegal to sell bear gallbladder and exotic species come to mind.

If a guy is shooting a 330 inch bull elk illegally he would somehow not dare sell antlers because it is illegal?

If a guy is buying and smoking meth he will refrain from selling antlers to make money for it because it is illegal? The honest, law-abiding meth head?

If there is a demand for antlers, whether it be dog chews, chandeliers or dildos, people will find a way to sell them. Will the demand be the same as rhino horn which has been of cultural significance in the East for thousands of years? No. But if people are willing to pay for something there will be people there to sell it, illegal or not.

This is precisely my argument you can't stop the illigal taking if there is demand. You have to crash the price by crashing the demand.
Fortunately the vast majority of the antler market is law abiding people buying chews for their dog because it is "neat". I personally think that most suburban wives will just grab a rawhide or bone when the alternative is black market elk antlers at as you claim a higher price than they already are.
The market will collapse its has a huge supply a casual clientele and very few cult followers.
Its not Ivor drugs or alcohol.
That said we can disagree.

 

[ida homer]

using terms like “brownie”, “hard white”, and “chalker”. If I could go back I’d probably kick my own ass.

Good woman. If any of you catch me saying “brownie” or “brown gold,” please report my light timber dirt nap shedicated LLC YouTube acct

 

[elkantlers]

Tax the sale of antler at 50% and use the proceeds for wildlife habitat projects.

 

[BZNHNTR]

A part of the antler market is overseas, Chinese culture believes it’s an aphrodisiac. The antler guy in Ennis ships conex’s full of antlers to be ground up into pills. The dog chew toy thing could be shut down but the overseas market is probably more like elephant tusks and rhino horns.
I’ve been to one wma opener, more of a social event than anything, not for me but at least they aren’t pressuring elk when they are still wintering.

 

[TheTone]

If someone is giving 18 you had better watch the grading because they are getting some back somewhere.
They didn't have multiple grades of brown did they?

Maybe multiple grades of brown, but I don’t know of any extra big or special stuff my friend had. If so he had really been holding out on me. I think some of what he sold were cut off raghorns from bulls he has killed

 

[Ben Lamb]

If a part becomes problematic it should made illegal to sell bear gallbladder and exotic species come to mind.

The big diffrerence here is that the bear has to die to be commoditized, whereas antlers are naturally shed, and theoretically, it doesn't cause impact to the animal. Same with meat, organs, etc. That's why, AFTER you reduce the animal to ownership, you can sell some bits, and sheds are regulated as they are.

The better solution to eliminating the market would be to simply regulate it better. WY seems to do a decent job of this, and for the WMA opener, it is a big past-time that has just as much to do with the event as finding antlers. So maybe, if the crowds continu to grow, it gets treated similarly to a Smith River Permit, in order to keep the quality of the sport going rather than leave it a free-for-all.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

The big diffrerence here is that the bear has to die to be commoditized, whereas antlers are naturally shed, and theoretically, it doesn't cause impact to the animal. Same with meat, organs, etc. That's why, AFTER you reduce the animal to ownership, you can sell some bits, and sheds are regulated as they are.

The better solution to eliminating the market would be to simply regulate it better. WY seems to do a decent job of this, and for the WMA opener, it is a big past-time that has just as much to do with the event as finding antlers. So maybe, if the crowds continu to grow, it gets treated similarly to a Smith River Permit, in order to keep the quality of the sport going rather than leave it a free-for-all.

2034
“Bruh, point creep in WY is nuts”

“Yeah bruh, I got max points and still haven’t drawn, shed unit 5”

“Sad bruh…wanna go lift then cat call chicks in front of Denny’s… sweet hat by the way, that the antler off the bull you shot in the neck and then the ass, and then the guts and lost all the meat to, but then posted about?”

 

[Elkmagnet]

The big diffrerence here is that the bear has to die to be commoditized, whereas antlers are naturally shed, and theoretically, it doesn't cause impact to the animal. Same with meat, organs, etc. That's why, AFTER you reduce the animal to ownership, you can sell some bits, and sheds are regulated as they are.

I do agree it's not the same but the impact is definitely there.

The better solution to eliminating the market would be to simply regulate it better. WY seems to do a decent job of this, and for the WMA opener, it is a big past-time that has just as much to do with the event as finding antlers. So maybe, if the crowds continu to grow, it gets treated similarly to a Smith River Permit, in order to keep the quality of the sport going rather than leave it a free-for-all.

I don't have issues with closing small areas that are enforable like wma's and such. The issue is when you are closing off larger portions like they do in western Wyoming or in North East Nevada. It is un enforable. The closures actually keep the honest people away so it becomes the wild west of cross country atv travel without anyone to turn in the law breaking individuals. The longer the seasons are in place the better the theifs get. We turned in a few people and have not gotten one prosecuted. We currently just turned someone in but if they know what to say they will walk. If not they will likely get fined less than what they pick up on a bad day.
You cannot give out one or two $100 tickets a year and impact the situation. Guys are picking up $2000 a day by driving cross country on tracked atv/utvs and chasing elk around on the winter grounds. They do this for a month before the honest people get a chance.
In Nevada the officers I talk to are completely overwhelmed with their hands tied due to loopholes and mixed private ground. I can give you warden phone numbers if you need more first hand experience with seasons.
Our results two people for 8 days every spot except 2 had muddy cross country atv/ track impressions. It hadn't been muddy in that area for weeks.
Since the season was enacted we have picked up half as much and with more effort. The funny thing Is we never see anyone anymore. Just month old tracks.
Seasons also are causing more impact on the roads. Guys are now spending weeks driving muddy roads "scouting" driving around all day looking from the roads and the roads have gotten a lot worse then they use to be. A lot of the Scouting is done with trucks that have camper shells with blacked out windows. Looking in a locked shell requires probable cause.
Helicopters are now landing on ridges to pick them up. Ranchers are landing Cessna's on blm in front of me. It is completely out of hand and now I'm not there to video and turn it in.
Closures can work but what about other users. I am mostly concerned about predator hunters because I am one but all users are impacted by this foolishness.
What I am struggling to say is that I see no way to enforce seasons and neither do the wardens I talk to.

 

[Deleted member 18333]

Look at all those public land advocates. R.R.R.! Gotta grow that pie otherwise it will all be taken from us and we wont get to enjoy our wild places and wild things.

 

[Ben Lamb]

I do agree it's not the same but the impact is definitely there.

I don't have issues with closing small areas that are enforable like wma's and such. The issue is when you are closing off larger portions like they do in western Wyoming or in North East Nevada. It is un enforable. The closures actually keep the honest people away so it becomes the wild west of cross country atv travel without anyone to turn in the law breaking individuals. The longer the seasons are in place the better the theifs get. We turned in a few people and have not gotten one prosecuted. We currently just turned someone in but if they know what to say they will walk. If not they will likely get fined less than what they pick up on a bad day.
You cannot give out one or two $100 tickets a year and impact the situation. Guys are picking up $2000 a day by driving cross country on tracked atv/utvs and chasing elk around on the winter grounds. They do this for a month before the honest people get a chance.
In Nevada the officers I talk to are completely overwhelmed with their hands tied due to loopholes and mixed private ground. I can give you warden phone numbers if you need more first hand experience with seasons.
Our results two people for 8 days every spot except 2 had muddy cross country atv/ track impressions. It hadn't been muddy in that area for weeks.
Since the season was enacted we have picked up half as much and with more effort. The funny thing Is we never see anyone anymore. Just month old tracks.
Seasons also are causing more impact on the roads. Guys are now spending weeks driving muddy roads "scouting" driving around all day looking from the roads and the roads have gotten a lot worse then they use to be. A lot of the Scouting is done with trucks that have camper shells with blacked out windows. Looking in a locked shell requires probable cause.
Helicopters are now landing on ridges to pick them up. Ranchers are landing Cessna's on blm in front of me. It is completely out of hand and now I'm not there to video and turn it in.
Closures can work but what about other users. I am mostly concerned about predator hunters because I am one but all users are impacted by this foolishness.
What I am struggling to say is that I see no way to enforce seasons and neither do the wardens I talk to.

Most states will tell you they're way understaffed on enforcement. That's a budget fix.

Making it illegal still gives the opportunity for managing. Sure, some will ignore that and continue to act inappropriately, but when you right-size your response and follow through with charging folks, you get to a place where you can stem the damage.

I'd much rather see this regulated than eliminated.

 

[Elkmagnet]

Most states will tell you they're way understaffed on enforcement. That's a budget fix.

Making it illegal still gives the opportunity for managing. Sure, some will ignore that and continue to act inappropriately, but when you right-size your response and follow through with charging folks, you get to a place where you can stem the damage.

I'd much rather see this regulated than eliminated.

I agree with your goal I just don't see it happening. I have spent many a night trying to figure out how to get rid of the greed while still being able to shed hunt. If it were illegal to sell but not illegal to hunt. I wouldn't be able to afford to go as often. That would hurt but I believe it is the only way to protect where the animals winter without army's of wardens. We use to be their eyes and ears now we sit at home on our thumbs while they drive around blind and def.

 

[Duck-Slayer]

I may repost this on IG and tag Corey Jacobsen lol
Matt