BuzzH
Well-known member
Sure, and a sword that cuts both ways...and some people have longer memories than others.
H.R. 8828 introduced -Leghold and conibear traps
- Thread starter Brandon270
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El Jason
Well-known member
Yeah. I never said they should.
El Jason
Well-known member
Certainly. That said, a GFY approach probably won't build the bridges trappers will likely need.
There are assholes in both groups, and neither is unilaterally right. There's a hell of a lot of collaborative middle ground being missed here, IMO.
406dn
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I have already stated that I have never trapped. I also said I do not have a problem with trapping.
All of the ground has been plowed several times now.
Buzz is incorrect about bird seasons being extended recently,,,, unless going back more than thirty years is recent.
If trappers expect me to give up opportunity to bird hunt in December without comment, they are mistaken.
So the trapper is the one suppose to make all the compromises?
BuzzH
Well-known member
Agreed...but the conversation in regard to bird hunters and trapper conflicts/pet owners ahs never started with anything other a big GFY toward trappers either, at least in my experience at various GF commission meetings, FWP meetings, etc.
For the record, I provided testimony in Wyoming to the WGF regarding this very subject...more toward pet owners than bird hunter conflicts.
My suggestion was number 3 on the list I provided. Educate the trappers AND the pet owners and let them sort it out that way. The pet owners want to put 100% of the liability on trappers, 100% of the time. Not once have I seen a single bird hunter or single pet owner offer up anything for a compromise. Their answer is to ban trapping in some way or another...from outright statewide ban, banning trapping near trails, banning trapping on State ground, the list goes on and on and on.
What are they giving?
You ask them to keep ol' rover on a leash in high potential conflict areas and you're taking "their babies" right away to be "a free spirit". Yeah, what about my right to be a free spirit with a handful of snares?
I'm all about common sense and compromise, the trouble is, in my experience compromise is largely not one on this issue...
BuzzH
Well-known member
No, I'm not wrong on the season extensions...FACT.
I tried looking it up to with no success but I was thinking it was around 10 years ago when everything was moved to January 1st but I could be wrong on that
BuzzH
Well-known member
Yep...
I'll dig around and see if I can find some old grouse regulations, the season ended with general deer and elk...along with fishing season on a lot of rivers (with the exception of whitefish).
El Jason
Well-known member
It was about 2004-2006 or so.
As I recall, the season was extended by about 10-14 days.
Edit: I see buzz posted the old regs below. 15 day increase.
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Irrelevant
Well-known member
Just two observations
1. The collective "we" don't really have any connection to furs and trapping anymore. It's hard to care about something at a high level when you have no exposure to it. We talk about this all the time in terms of recruiting new hunters. I don't own a single article of fur, and not for any reason other than I just don't.
2. There has been a long term trend towards dogs no longer being dogs, they are now part of the family. Our dog growing up was a watch/guard dog, it stayed on a cable run all day while we were away. Now it's way more common for dogs to sleep in the house, on the couch or the bed, they've become more of a family member than just a "dog". So I think the loss of just a few dogs has been elevated higher on the public give-a-shit list. Similar to how harm to children is treated differently than harm to adults.
I'm not going to weigh in, as I've never trapped and can't hardly keep my bird dog in the same county as me.
1. The collective "we" don't really have any connection to furs and trapping anymore. It's hard to care about something at a high level when you have no exposure to it. We talk about this all the time in terms of recruiting new hunters. I don't own a single article of fur, and not for any reason other than I just don't.
2. There has been a long term trend towards dogs no longer being dogs, they are now part of the family. Our dog growing up was a watch/guard dog, it stayed on a cable run all day while we were away. Now it's way more common for dogs to sleep in the house, on the couch or the bed, they've become more of a family member than just a "dog". So I think the loss of just a few dogs has been elevated higher on the public give-a-shit list. Similar to how harm to children is treated differently than harm to adults.
I'm not going to weigh in, as I've never trapped and can't hardly keep my bird dog in the same county as me.
El Jason
Well-known member
I'm not insinuating or saying they are giving anything. By and large, they are not. The simple fact is, they don't have to. It would be like me trying to tell the Galts how to manage elk on their ranch. I have no leverage. At all. Hence the reason it baffles me when I read some comments here that put all of the responsibility on the dog handler. I consider myself pretty common sense and proficient, and I've had a few WTF moments reading this thread.
I cannot fathom why someone would WANT to put snares in a potentially high conflict area. There are public land places I just don't take my dog for training, because the potential for conflict is there and it's not worth it to me.
I'm bowing out. I'm not a trapper and I don't have a dog in this fight. I don't support over regulation, but that's the knee jerk reaction by pretty much all parts of society is to make something they don't like illegal. I truly wish you guys who do trap the best. You'll need it, and I'm saying that as an honest observation, not out of snark.
BuzzH
Well-known member
Sounds about right. The reason I remember it, I was at a FWP meeting in Missoula and ONE bird hunter was there at the meeting and when it was his turn to talk, in support of the season extension, he was limited to 5 minutes. That after listening to 2 hours of lion hunters, one after another, drone on about making trophy cat areas.
SAJ-99
Well-known member
Yep. Sorry to bring reality into the discussion.
406dn
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You can say it a thousand times and it won't be a fact. I have been avidly hunting bird for the last thirty years. The ONLY change of consequence in that time has been to shorten the season for sage grouse.
BuzzH
Well-known member
I totally agree about putting snares in high use areas, and that was exactly what I proposed to the GF. Trapper education for all, pet owners included.
I also agree on the knee jerk reaction.
I still think with pet owners, bird hunters, and trappers educating themselves a lot of the conflicts go away.
The bigger picture for me, is the sad fact the world is shrinking and there's more and more people using more and more areas. To the point that conflicts are inevitable. I think all users need to assume some level of risk.
BuzzH
Well-known member
Wrong...
406dn
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Yes you are, on many things I suspect.
BuzzH
Well-known member
You still want to argue...or shut your soup cooler?
2000-01 - Upland game birds and falconry hunting regulations, State of Montana - Biodiversity Heritage Library
The Biodiversity Heritage Library works collaboratively to make biodiversity literature openly available to the world as part of a global biodiversity community.
Bird Hunting in Montana - A Project Upland Guide
Montana, as the fourth largest state, offers prairies, ranges, plateaus, valleys, lakes and great plains. Some 33 million acres of that land belongs to the public, which means a great deal of it is open for hunting.
projectupland.com
