Grizzly Bear on Highway 83 Seeley Lake MT

[whiskeydog]

And I hope you don't own a dog...

"According to data compiled by the Wildlife Research Institute, people are 45 times more likely to be killed by a dog than by a bear, 120 times more likely to be killed by bees than a bear, and a whopping 250 times more likely to be killed by lightening than a bear."

 

[MoGreen]

I find it absolutely hilarious that the only guy opposed to griz is the guy from NY. Any respectable hunter is a conservationist at heart. The end goal for most members on this forum would be to see griz populations at a sustainable level (which is likely where we are now) where they can then be hunted like the rest of the critters in the west (and hopefully this will happen in the next few years!).

As for this forum losing a single member due to sarcasm directed at someone who opined that griz should be eliminated...i give that less of a chance of happening than being attacked by a griz in Central Park.

And I find it absolutely hilarious that every person attacked by a Grizzly seems to be someone from the West with years of hunting experience. You claim to be the safest, most bear-aware people out there. But it doesn't seem to help. A lot of times it happens too fast.

You do realize that you are on a Website named "On Your Own Adventures" that is dedicated to hunting abroad, do you not? And the owner of the site has stated - in video many times - that the purpose of the organization is to encourage more people to hunt abroad. This seems to be something you (and many others) oppose. Your anti-Rocky Mountain States demeanor really doesn't bode well for the theme of the site. And probably doesn't bode well, in the long term, for keeping the land open to the public should a land-grab movement take prominence. If you (and others) want to keep publicly bashing people that do not live in the Rocky Mountain West then you may pay the toll down the road.

This is why I feel that people outside of the Rocky Mountain West need to be more involved in what is happening out there. It seems the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation understands it as they have chapters in every state. But a lot of other people don't get it.

You have no more rights to that land than any other US citizen whether you live one mile from the forest boundary or 5000 miles from it.

 

[James Riley]

And I find it absolutely hilarious that every person attacked by a Grizzly seems to be someone from the West with years of hunting experience. You claim to be the safest, most bear-aware people out there. But it doesn't seem to help. A lot of times it happens too fast.

You do realize that you are on a Website named "On Your Own Adventures" that is dedicated to hunting abroad, do you not? And the owner of the site has stated - in video many times - that the purpose of the organization is to encourage more people to hunt abroad. This seems to be something you (and many others) oppose. Your anti-Rocky Mountain States demeanor really doesn't bode well for the theme of the site. And probably doesn't bode well, in the long term, for keeping the land open to the public should a land-grab movement take prominence. If you (and others) want to keep publicly bashing people that do not live in the Rocky Mountain West then you may pay the toll down the road.

This is why I feel that people outside of the Rocky Mountain West need to be more involved in what is happening out there. It seems the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation understands it as they have chapters in every state. But a lot of other people don't get it.

You have no more rights to that land than any other US citizen whether you live one mile from the forest boundary or 5000 miles from it.

I get your drift and agree with it in principle. But in the context of this thread, I would just say this: The west is the west, and if protecting it means getting more easterners on board by turning it into the east, then it kind of defeats the whole purpose. We could make it more handicapped-friendly, put in more roads, provide better wi-fi, kill all the bears and snakes and cats and pave the trails and, make it easier and then stock the hell out of it with elk, deer and all the sexy hunting critters, and do a ton of things to get more people out here using and enjoying it.

No. No. No.

Besides, as I implied in this or another thread on the subject, I don't think we have much to worry about because many folks back east don't hunt but they champion public lands, hate the politics of the types of people who want to privatize and they love grizzly bears and all the bunnies. So it's only a very tiny minority of people like you who we stand to lose. Really, how many people back east don't hunt out west because they are afraid of grizzly bears? Three?

And yes, even the best woodsman can be killed by a grizzly. And Mario Andretti could get killed by some dumb driver who is texting. Life can be a little risky and it's not a good thing to eliminate all risk.

 

[whiskeydog]

And I find it absolutely hilarious that every person attacked by a Grizzly seems to be someone from the West with years of hunting experience.

And the majority of the people attacked in Central Park are NYers...what's your point?

You do realize that you are on a Website named "On Your Own Adventures" that is dedicated to hunting abroad, do you not? And the owner of the site has stated - in video many times - that the purpose of the organization is to encourage more people to hunt abroad.

Abroad means overseas, but I'll assume you mean traveling outside your home to hunt/explore new areas. I can't speak for Randy, but I'm fairly confident the purpose of OYOA is to encourage hunting on, and preservation of, public land regardless of where it is located. It just so happens that the West is fortunate to have public land in large supply.

If you (and others) want to keep publicly bashing people that do not live in the Rocky Mountain West then you may pay the toll down the road.

Nobody is bashing those that don't live in the West. I'm not bashing you. I'm bashing your crazy opinion that griz outside of Yellowstone should all be eliminated. Spend some time on this forum and you will see that the vast majority of people here are willing to bend over backwards to help those from other areas learn about hunting in areas the questioner may be unfamiliar with. I seem to remember a couple years back guys scrambling to help a guy from England when his ammo was confiscated at the airport. There are hundreds if not thousands of threads full of people reaching out to help guys from the East, the South, and overseas with their western hunts.

You have no more rights to that land than any other US citizen whether you live one mile from the forest boundary or 5000 miles from it.

Agreed...Never claimed I did.



As I stated previously, I am not attacking you personally, just your opinion. If you ever need info in helping to plan a hunt in an area you aren't familiar with, myself or hundreds of others on this site will gladly offer whatever limited knowledge (aside from giving you specific hunting spots) we may have...regardless of where you are from. Keep in mind that when you come on a site and offer up an opinion that not only diverges from, but completely contradicts, the views of the majority, you are going to trigger some opposition.

Here's an interesting bit I found:
In the 2000s, there were 27 fatal incidences in North America, resulting in 29 deaths. 15 were in Canada, three were in Alaska, two were in Tennessee, and single fatal attacks happened in New York, New Mexico, California, Pennsylvania, Colorado, Utah and Montana. 17 of those attacks were perpetrated by black bears, and 10 by grizzlies

I couldn't find numbers on non-fatal attacks.

Griz are definitely a consideration when hunting MT/WY/ID. "The estimated Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem grizzly bear population increased from 136 in 1975 to between 674 and 839 in 2014." So yes, those of us that periodically enter areas populated by griz have had to change the way we do things over the years. It's part of the game. We make a choice when we hunt in griz areas, but there are plenty of hunting opportunities in areas that don't sustain griz populations. A few weeks back I ran into a guy form Bozeman who was hunting in the Little Belts (central MT) because he like hunting alone and didn't like hunting near home due to griz...that's his choice.

If you really want to alienate people across the US and turn them against hunters, then keep advocating for the reversal of the wonderful griz recovery that has been achieved since in the implementation of the recovery program put in place in 1982.

 

[James Riley]

. . . there are plenty of hunting opportunities in areas that don't sustain griz populations.

This ^^^.

Teachable moment: If a man wants such an area, he's got the whole state of Colorado. If he doesn't want Colorado, then the next question is, why not? Why choose Montana/Wyoming/Idaho over Colorado? There's some math that could be done here with the answer to that question. I'll leave the reader to do it.

 

[.280 Remington]

This ^^^.

Teachable moment: If a man wants such an area, he's got the whole state of Colorado. If he doesn't want Colorado, then the next question is, why not? Why choose Montana/Wyoming/Idaho over Colorado? There's some math that could be done here with the answer to that question. I'll leave the reader to do it.

Most people I talk to about it aren't upset that bears exist. But their expansion bothers them.

And really, I can see that. It is nice to be able to camp/hunt/fish in places where you don't have to worry about bears. That said, their presence never keeps me from recreating in bear country.

But for the guys who hunt the breaks or some place similar and aren't looking forward to the day when they have to carry pepper spray or worry about getting mauled coming back to pick up a quarter, well, I think that is totally reasonable.

Its kinda like guns. I am a huge 2A supporter, so obviously, I don't want them banned. But I don't feel the need to carry them everywhere or think that every person should be carrying one.

 

[James Riley]

Most people I talk to about it aren't upset that bears exist. But their expansion bothers them.

And really, I can see that. It is nice to be able to camp/hunt/fish in places where you don't have to worry about bears. That said, their presence never keeps me from recreating in bear country.

But for the guys who hunt the breaks or some place similar and aren't looking forward to the day when they have to carry pepper spray or worry about getting mauled coming back to pick up a quarter, well, I think that is totally reasonable.

Its kinda like guns. I am a huge 2A supporter, so obviously, I don't want them banned. But I don't feel the need to carry them everywhere or think that every person should be carrying one.

Personally, I wish they would spread down here (CO), along with wolves. Hell, I wish they were abundent throughout their post-glacial range, including down-town Denver. But I can understand wanting to be king. It's good to be king.

 

[noharleyyet]

I'll just leave this here...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DZNDEqcSi0

 

[James Riley]

I'll just leave this here...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DZNDEqcSi0

Wish I had the bandwidth to watch youtube.

 

[whiskeydog]

Most people I talk to about it aren't upset that bears exist. But their expansion bothers them.

But for the guys who hunt the breaks or some place similar and aren't looking forward to the day when they have to carry pepper spray or worry about getting mauled coming back to pick up a quarter, well, I think that is totally reasonable.

Definitely valid points. I don't think we need to worry about expansion into the breaks. Not saying one bear couldn't potentially wander up there someday, but getting a population established there without human assistance seems unlikely. Now for areas like the Crazies/Castles/Belts, that is a very legitimate concern. There are getting to be more and more of them in the Beartooths around Red Lodge when in the past they were never even a thought when hiking there...I really hope that population doesn't continue to expand.

However, shooting all griz on site outside of GYE, as was previously suggested is not the answer. There is a good probability that, due to the successful recovery, delisting will happen...hopefully in the near future. The goal is to keep them off the threatened list of the ESA so the states can dictate management. Once they're delisted, then the states can open up reasonable hunting seasons to maintain the populations. As long as all the minimum population goals are maintained there should be no reason that they can't take steps to keep them out of some of these areas...hopefully through hunting.

Not to mention, having rounds fired their way once a season is established, will hopefully teach them a bit of respect...

 

[Southern Elk]

I'll just leave this here...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DZNDEqcSi0

"Don't ever take sides with anyone against the family again...ever."

 

[sra61]

I had a big Griz right on the side of the road down there around Lake Inez I think, a couple of summers ago in the middle of the night. If he'd have stepped one step farther I'd have hit him. We also had a younger griz bluff charge us in November in the snow in the same area too. He damn near got shot, he angled off at maybe 10 yards. Really weren't expecting to see him at that time.

 

[.280 Remington]

Personally, I wish they would spread down here (CO), along with wolves. Hell, I wish they were abundent throughout their post-glacial range, including down-town Denver. But I can understand wanting to be king. It's good to be king.

It's got nothing to do with "being king." I'm still "king" with my Marlin 45-70 guide gun shooting Buffalo Bore ammunition. But not having to fight for the throne is appealing.

 

[.280 Remington]

I don't think we need to worry about expansion into the breaks. Not saying one bear couldn't potentially wander up there someday, but getting a population established there without human assistance seems unlikely.

At the rate they are going, I would bet we have permanent resident bears in the breaks within 10 years. They've moved out quite a bit in the last few. Verified sightings along the Marias/Teton/Missouri rivers out to the Ft. Benton area. Verified grizzlies in the Sweetgrass Hills.

I think once a few of them hit the breaks and get out of the "populated" farm land, they will establish themselves.

 

[mtmuley]

I'm antelope hunting near the Sweetgrass Hills for a few days. Bears have even been spotted near my family's farm North of Shelby. I hope I see one. Guess this is another place MoGreen can cross off his list of places to hunt. mtmuley

 

[James Riley]

It's got nothing to do with "being king." I'm still "king" with my Marlin 45-70 guide gun shooting Buffalo Bore ammunition. But not having to fight for the throne is appealing.

Guns don't make you king. Ask all the armed guys who've been taken by grizz. If we're talking guns, the King is the Nation/State. They out-gun you and they say you can't shoot grizz sans threat or until there are enough of them. MoGreen might have a Marlin 45-70 guide gun shooting Buffalo Bore ammunition but if he were king, all grizz would be dead. He's not, and neither are you.