Forgotten Calibers

[antelopedundee]

I don't know. I've never heard of it. Sorry.

It's a series now available on Netflix about building the Continental Railroad. IIRC it starts with the railway west of Council Bluffs.

 

[Losing_Sanity]

I have been asked by a couple fellows to respond to this thread. To be honest the number of calibers that have become obsolete, with the hunting populace , especially in the U.S. is staggering for someone my age. So many fine calibers have fallen out of favor in my lifetime.

It's interesting that some cartridges are similar in other countries. There might be some simple deviations, but they are real close in many ways. It's like human nature drew developers in the same direction as they looked for functionality and performance. And that some have become scarce while others have thrived depending on popularity and marketing. Some of the scarce calibers have been really great performers.

 

[Losing_Sanity]

One interesting round was the 8mm German Mauser. It gained some popularity for a while but you don't hear much anymore about an 8 mm. My understanding is, it was real close in performance to the 30-06 but bullet selection and options was not great.

 

[Europe]

One interesting round was the 8mm German Mauser. It gained some popularity for a while but you don't hear much anymore about an 8 mm. My understanding is, it was real close in performance to the 30-06 but bullet selection and options was not great.

Sir, I was hoping someone with more knowledge than I would respond. The 8mm mauser is in fact similar to the 30-06, perhaps a bit weaker and some still have and use them in Europe, not so much anymore in Africa.

One of the problems has been the fact the the 8mm is also the 7.92 x 57, 8 x 57 and the 318 mauser ( not to be confused with the 318 Westley Richards which has a bore size if 330 ). To further complicate the matter, the 8 x 57 came in two bore sizes the 318 and 323. ( 318--I and J ) ( 323 -- IS, JS, S)

Brent, I thought about two others today while waiting in doctor offices ---Didnt Morgan Freeman use a Spenser in Unforgiven ?---and what did Redford use in Jeremiah Johnson, ? These were both hunting movies--sort of LOL

Losingsanity--btw, a lot of the problem at that time is God forbid that Germany and England was going to call anything the same thing, even if it was

 

[Dan O]

Europe,
I'm not sure about the movie The Unforgiven. Redford used a 50 cal. Hawken he got from the frozen corpse of "Hatchet Jack" The rifle he bought in St Louis at the beginning of the movie was also a Hawken but I think in a smaller caliber I think around 30 cal. Hatchet Jack had a run in with a Grizzly and suffered two broken leg's but he said the bear was also killed. His note he left said something like " It's a good rifle, it kilt the bear that kilt me" I think that's how he spelled killed but heck he was a trapper not a teacher lol.

Dan

 

[BrentD]

Yes, Freeman had a Spencer, I'm 90% sure. Great movie. I've never had a Spencer but I think it was only viable as a military arm. It wasn't much of a shooter for accuracy and wasn't really a big hunting round so far as I know. The Henry and some others came along on its heels, even before the Civil War was over and replaced it.

Jeremiah Johnson was all about a Hawken muzzleloader. They are considered the crème de la crème of hunting muzzleloaders in that era that time. They were usually large caliber 56-58 caliber but I recall some controversy about that in the movie. I think he said something about it being a smaller caliber when he found it in the tree with the body of the dead trapper (which would have rusted it badly I would think. But the Hawken from St. Louis was the gun of the era.

There are 1874 Sharps rifles in a large number of movies, but while the Sharps was primarily a hunting rifle, the movies are not (Outlaw Josie Wales; Good, Bad and the Ugly; True Grit etc.).

Somewhere along the road a ways back, I became what my shooting partner calls a "Marlin queer". I prefer them over Winchester lever repeaters. But you can watch a heck of a lot of westerns and never see a Marlin, and if you do, it's in the background, held by some 2 bit bandito who is about to be Winchestered by the hero.

If I sound like a movie fanatic, I'm not, but I do watch the rifles and shotguns if the time period is right.

Not too much time in doctor's offices I hope.

Take care.

 

[3darcher2]

Gunner,
Who is JES?
And why would i send them a rifle to do 338 Fed when i can get a 24" (or shorter) E.R.Shaw barrel reamed, polished, blued, with 11 degree recessed crown delivered to my door for $272, and put on myself?
Plus having the satisfaction, much like hand loading, of doing it yourself.

JES is JES Reboring in Oregon. Do a quick Google search. He rebores about anything. Lots of guys send stuff to get it turned into 35 Whelens, 338-06, 358 Win, etc. He usually has about a 2-3 week turnaround time and charges around $250 plus shipping. It's a great way to revive and old -06 or a 308, and I've never seen anyone say their gun wasn't a shooter, or that they were not happy with his work.

 

[Losing_Sanity]

JES is JES Reboring in Oregon. Do a quick Google search. He rebores about anything. Lots of guys send stuff to get it turned into 35 Whelens, 338-06, 358 Win, etc. He usually has about a 2-3 week turnaround time and charges around $250 plus shipping. It's a great way to revive and old -06 or a 308, and I've never seen anyone say their gun wasn't a shooter, or that they were not happy with his work.

So there is hope for my Browning 223 WSSM. I read somewhere that the barrel can't be swapped, or vary difficult without cracking it. So maybe going up in caliber might be a solution. It's kind of a unique action size and not much you can do with it.

 

[VAspeedgoat]

Jeremiah Johnson bought a smaller calliber hawken and then found hatchet Jack's. I believe the first was said to be .35? Hatchet Jack's was a .50. My son read the book the movie is based on but I can't remember the real story on how he got hatchet Jack's rifle.

 

[Europe]

Dan, Brent, VAspeedgoat

thanks guys for the comments about Jeremiah Johnson. When I spoke to my daughter she reminded me of how much her father liked the Alamo ( the John Wayne one ) and she was right he did. He always enjoyed the scene with Richard Boone talking about the men at the Alamo, those who have seen it can finish this sentence on their own---"Now Tomorrow-----------" Anyway, I also remember how he wanted to get his hands on the rifle Widmark used--the 7 barrel Nock, but he never did. Wayne used a Hawken I think and the flintlock pistols were pretty cool as well.

Brent, my husband had Marlins, Henrys, Winchesters, Savage, Browning levers and he also liked the Marlin rifles . My son has talked about the company that now makes lever action rifles in Montana but I am forgetting their name and also the Wild West rifles that I think are made In Alaska, but their headquarters are in Las Vegas, but I might have that wrong

I think the company in Montana its Big Horn Armory

p.s. also guys, I thought some of you might get a kick out of this. My granddaughter is bugging her mother to let her join the CMSA. All she needs is a horse, saddle, clothes, revolver, holster, and rifle---they have a horse trailer -------- I love it (-:

 

[FLS]

358 Winchester is a great cartridge that should have made it. 200-225 gr bullets at moderate velocities out of a compact package. Shoots flat enough And hits with authority.

 

[Grundy53]

2 more recent casualties of the Remingtonization of Marlin: 308 & 338 Marlin Express. I had a hankering for one of those.

I have a .338 MX I really like it. Nice little brush gun.

 

[Grundy53]

I have to agree with what people said about the 280. For some reason according to all the internet experts out there it isn't capable of killing anything bigger than a deer. I love my Remington 700 mountain in 280 just wish it was left handed.

I have a couple buddies that hunt elk with .280s. That's all they use. I've seen a lot of elk killed by that round.

 

[Grundy53]

The only gun I have that's suitable for class 2 or 3 game is the obsolescent 300 H&H magnum - granddaddy to almost countless other magnums. Ballistically, it's almost identical to the 300 Win Mag, which won out because it doesn't require a true magnum-length receiver.

Due to the recoil and availability/price of ammo, I'd love to get something smaller for class 2 and keep the H&H for class 3 only, but I've been back and forth about which chambering. The reduced recoil of a short-chamber is appealing - especially as I have a daughter and no plans for a son. A quarter-bore is really what I want, but the only real option is the 25-06 - the 257 Roberts going the way of my H&H maybe due to older chambers that can't handle the +P loads. I'd never heard of the 25 Souper, but it seems like that would be an ideal round for one of the manufactures to standardize - that or revitalize the Bob+P. Especially given the warm reception the 7mm-08 has received from a new (or aged) generation that has no desire to try to control unnecessary '06 or magnum recoil for shots on deer at reasonable distances.

Then again, there's not much separation between a quarter-bore and the offerings at .264/6.5. Maybe I need to just put on a tweed coat and felt hat and buy a 6.5 Swede or 260 Rem or grow a man-bun and buy a 6.5 CM.

.257 weatherby magnum would be a good option for a quarter bore. I love mine. Plenty speed and not much recoil.

 

[oleefish2]

Other guns my family have and use to have. 22 Remington Special, 22 hornet, 22 Jet, 22-3000, 222 Remington, M1 grand 22 range gun, 58 cal musket, 410-2 1/2 inch single shot, 6.5 rem mag, 6mm-284, 250-3000, 264 mag and some I can not remember. My son still uses his model 700 6.5 rem mag. Most are gone but a few are in the safes

 

[NVDesertHunter]

300 H&H Magnum is a cartridge I wish more major rifle manufacturers would produce

Glad to see the 6.5x284 Norma making it into more common rifles

just a matter of time before a 7mm PRC is produced to rival the 28 Nosler

 

[Stray Horse]

The 6mm Remington has become my favorite over the years. I have an old Remington 700 carbine 1963 in 6mm Remington. I noticed Federal has dropped their premium line for this cartridge. I gave them a call. It was stupid for me to bother.

 

[EOregonian]

Here's a couple I wish I still had: 358 Norma Mag and a 7.61Sharpe and Hart both Schultz and Larsens. Rear lugged rifles-great steel-great shooters-dumb owner. Shouldn't have sold them. Another I still own 250-3000 Savage 99A takedown manufacture date nearly 100 years ago

 

[danr55]

One thing that has not changed over the years, is hunters/shooters all have favorites that are better (in their opinion) than the favorites of other hunters/shooters. I guess that's what keeps us all looking at new stuff. Let me just say while you are all correct, you would be more correct if you agreed with me that once we got past the 6.5X55, 7X57, 7X68 and 8X57, they all just variations on the theme.

 

[elkhnter]

I haven’t seen my personal favorite, the 300 SAUM. Have one in a 673 Guide Gun and love that rifle.