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First Blood? Who's is it?

Bambistew

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The live sheep hunt on Bowsite is an interesting situation, but unfortunately not uncommon. http://forums.bowsite.com/tf/bgforums/thread.cfm?forum=12&threadid=445655&MESSAGES=29&FF=12#4072030

Brings up question that I see from time to time. Who's animal is it, the one who draws blood, or the one who kills it? Drawing mortal blood is one thing, drawing non-fatal or prolonged death blood is all together another IMO. I'm not sure I've heard of an animal killed and claimed days after the initial shot, seems like its usually just after the shot or within an hour or two.

So who's ram is it when its finally killed? At what point does your ownership of a wounded animal end? Once he gives up chase, or some other reasonable time? Reason I ask is because the stink that came from the other guys going after a ram that the original shooter couldn't identify as "his" ram. Pretty balzy move to sneak in on an animal that was spotted by someone else, but then again... loose lips... and there are lots of assholes in the hunting world.

What if you found the ram 3-7 days later and put an arrow in it, only later to find the previous wound. Would you look for the owner of the previous wound? What if you were to find original shooter, would you give it up to him after you packed it off the mountain?

I had a mortally wounded elk taken from me when I was about 17. The thing was dead on its feet, squirting blood out both sides of his rib cage. Another hunter shot it after it went about 50 yards over a small ridge and dropped it. The foot race was on, and he won... one of the craziest hunting moments of my life.
 
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Nameless Range

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What if you found the ram 3-7 days later and put an arrow in it, only later to find the previous wound. Would you look for the owner of the previous wound? What if you were to find original shooter, would you give it up to him after you packed it off the mountain?

I had a mortally wounded elk taken from me when I was about 17. The thing was dead on its feet, squirting blood out both sides of his rib cage. Another hunter shot it after it went about 50 yards over a small ridge and dropped it. The foot race was on, and he won... one of the craziest hunting moments of my life.

I've heard horror stories about the experience you describe.

To me, mortally in this instance means immediate. An infected hoof could be mortal in the sense that the critter will die days or weeks later. Of course any declaration of time will be arbitrary, but if I shot an animal 3 to 7 days after it had originally been shot, I would not look for the original shooter.I would not turn it over. Even a day later.

I think if the pursuit is still occurring - as in the the original shooter shot, was tracking, and had not relented(i.e. gone back to camp, left the mountain, etc) then if I shot that animal and the shooter approached me before I got it off the mountain, I would turn it over. Sure the criteria of "before I got it off the mountain" is also arbitrary, but I think it is a reasonable amount of time and circumstance.

I'd put it this way:

If you shoot an animal and an hour later that animal is still alive - still trying to get away from you - then that animal is in no way "your animal". You didn't do your job, you've caused undue suffering to a living thing, and you deserve nothing from that animal or any other member of the public. Be grateful that someone put it out of its misery.

.
 
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Nameless Range

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Then again, after reading what I wrote I don't think "getting it off the mountain" is a good criteria. It would basically be when I notch my tag.

If you slay a critter, wounded or not, and let someone else notch their tag on it. That's party hunting isn't it?
 

Schaaf

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I'd be interested in reading the thread, Bambi. Could you get me a link?

Tried looking but was unable to find it.
 

belly-deep

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It all depends on the circumstances.

In the rams case, if someone kills it in the future, they don't owe the guy on bowsite the animal. He screwed up with a bad shot and he has to live with that.

In the case of your elk, the other guy was clearly in the wrong and you should have tagged it.

Like I said, all dependent on the circumstances.
 

tjones

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314 tags sold for 35 total sheep and less then 10 rams and the guy is pissed when other hunters show up to go after "his" ram?

We all knew this would happen before the season even opened.
 

BucksnDucks

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First Blood-It is not a black and white issue for sure because of the circumstances that may arise. I'm not sure what other states have in the way of codified law but California Fish and Game code uses the term "hot pursuit" in section 2011.

The law basically defines "possession" of game as actual physical possession OR "when game is wounded or otherwise maimed and the person who wounded or maimed is in hot pursuit.

Clear as mud right? It could be argued either way that waiting an hour or two after putting an arrow into an animal is "hot pursuit" or not

It can be a contentious issue for sure, only aggravated by trophy critters or intense hunter competition
 

1_pointer

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IMO, the guy who “kills” it is probably the last guy that shoots it. I don’t think you can claim ownership of a wounded animal, but only when you apply the tag to it. Unless, it’s a really short time or in close proximity and I’m the second shooter, it’s my critter. If its 3-7 days later, I’m tagging it and not looking for anyone nor giving it to anyone.
 

phutch30

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I dont agree with 1st blood unless its a lethal shot. In this case it sure doesnt sound like a lethal shot. Id say if it walked past someone and they lung'ed it then they would be in the rights to tag it.

The Bowsite thread was getting entertaining.
 

backsmasher23

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Like previously stated, there are a ton of extenuating circumstances. Couple years ago, 12yr old kid leg shot an 8pt whitetail, smaller buck, two properties over. I saw that it was limping and dropped the deer, 80 yds in the woods a guy could see blood coming down the leg. 15 minutes later dad and the son showed up and I let him tag it. Kid was thrilled. No doubt that deer could have went a couple more miles probably, but for the kid could you imagine his view on hunting had some other landowner kept it.

If they would have came 6-8 hours later, who knows...deer might have been in my truck heading for home.
 

maxx

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IMO, the guy who “kills” it is probably the last guy that shoots it. I don’t think you can claim ownership of a wounded animal, but only when you apply the tag to it. Unless, it’s a really short time or in close proximity and I’m the second shooter, it’s my critter. If its 3-7 days later, I’m tagging it and not looking for anyone nor giving it to anyone.

Devils advocate here because I have seen double lung deer go 400 plus yards.

If I double lung a deer and it runs 50 yards over a ridge and another guy shoots it do you really think he deserves it?

I have hunted some public lands in WI that are just like this. When I shoot one I typically keep firing until it is down when I hunt there for this very reason.
 

JLS

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Legally, it goes to whoever finally kills it. Ethically, well, I guess that seems to vary.

I've been following the Bowsite thread closely. If I were in that guy's shoes, and I hit the ram like he did, I would want the courtesy of being allowed to try to find it and finish it. In all probability, it's a high double lung hit from the blood and the fact that the animal kept going downhill. A shot into the muscle would not have created much blood.

Was he wrong to ask the guys for space? I guess it depends on how he approached it. If he asked for space until he ascertained it was or wasn't the correct ram, then I don't think that's wrong at all. Is he legally entitled to that? Absolutely not. Is it chicken shit to try and cut in on him? Absolutely.

I don't care how many tags were issued. Common courtesy and respect go a long ways in life. If you'll screw someone over because it's "legal" in a sheep hunt, then you'll screw over people in other aspects of life. Just because something is legal doesn't necessarily mean it's right. Too many folks try to find gray areas in life so they can justify acting like an ass hat. It would appear this sheep hunt is another such example.

If I came across the sheep in the field, I'd leave it and go find the guy who hit it first given the fact that it was widely known. If I was in the middle of the boonies, I would probably shoot it and tag it. Not all situations are equal.

It's a crappy deal. The guy made a bad shot and did his best to make it right. Any of us who bowhunt have either been there, or we will be someday.
 

DRAFTSTUD

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Wow, I have been all over the page on some of these. Shot a real nice Mule Deer when I was 22 and before it fell a Lady Hunter shot it in the Neck and dropped it. Her Deer since it was out of my sight when she dropped it. Shot a Cow Elk on a ridge and she was laying with her head up, sorta swaying. Talked a Buddy into position to give her one in the head so we didn't have to haul her up that drop off. I claim that elk. I have crawled though lots of cut overs to kill and recover a deer, always gave it to the original shooter. So, I guess I kinda go by if the animal is shot by me and gets out there and another hunter shoots it it is his. John
 

mdhunter

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The live sheep hunt on Bowsite is an interesting situation, but unfortunately not uncommon. http://forums.bowsite.com/tf/bgforums/thread.cfm?forum=12&threadid=445655&MESSAGES=29&FF=12#4072030

Brings up question that I see from time to time. Who's animal is it, the one who draws blood, or the one who kills it? Drawing mortal blood is one thing, drawing non-fatal or prolonged death blood is all together another IMO. I'm not sure I've heard of an animal killed and claimed days after the initial shot, seems like its usually just after the shot or within an hour or two.

So who's ram is it when its finally killed? At what point does your ownership of a wounded animal end? Once he gives up chase, or some other reasonable time? Reason I ask is because the stink that came from the other guys going after a ram that the original shooter couldn't identify as "his" ram. Pretty balzy move to sneak in on an animal that was spotted by someone else, but then again... loose lips... and there are lots of assholes in the hunting world.

What if you found the ram 3-7 days later and put an arrow in it, only later to find the previous wound. Would you look for the owner of the previous wound? What if you were to find original shooter, would you give it up to him after you packed it off the mountain?

I had a mortally wounded elk taken from me when I was about 17. The thing was dead on its feet, squirting blood out both sides of his rib cage. Another hunter shot it after it went about 50 yards over a small ridge and dropped it. The foot race was on, and he won... one of the craziest hunting moments of my life.

3-7 days after it was wounded and I kill it and pack it off the mountain...I dont think I am giving that ram up...just saying.
 

tjones

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The way I read it, and I may be wrong but it wasn't even the same day as the initial hit that he was asking for space to go after a ram he wasn't even certain was the one he hit.
NHY hit the nail....
 
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mdhunter

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The way I read it, and I may be wrong but it wasn't even the same day as the initial hit that he was asking for space to go after a ram he wasn't even certain was the one he hit.
NHY hit the nail....

I should probably have read the link before posting any comments. I read Bambistew's thread about being out hunting and harvesting an animal that turns out to have been wounded 3-7 days prior (and I am imagining no other hunter to be found until after I pack the animal out). Anyway, carry on...
 

RobG

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The way I read it, and I may be wrong but it wasn't even the same day as the initial hit that he was asking for space to go after a ram he wasn't even certain was the one he hit.
NHY hit the nail....
And once he found out it wasn't his ram he helped the "bowsiter" head off the guy who was stalking it. Not cool at all. I also think it is unreasonable to expect someone else to stop hunting because you screwed up and aren't even sure if the animal on the hill is the one you wounded. However, I can understand the frustration *notag felt and might have said the same thing... but not if I had thought much about it in advance.

Regarding the question, I'd give up an elk (or sheep) if the other guy could show he shot it first. I'd be mad as hell if someone expected my kid to do the same assuming my kid didn't realize it was shot previously... [edit... after 3-7 days? The animal was obviously not mortally wounded so probably not in general unless it was a special case like he was sneaking up on it when I shot it.]

Question though, what if you made the killing shot not knowing it was shot previously, then, right after you validate the tag, an excited kid comes up and says it is his elk. I'd be tempted to give the kid the elk, but could I get a new tag? I kinda depend on the meat...
 
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