Federal Public Lands Transfer Fallacies

Straight Arrow

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The following are my assertions regarding the fallacies of statements about PLT. Having no real pride in authorship, you are free to repeat, refute, restate, correct, revise or otherwise respond to what I have proffered.


FEDERAL PUBLIC LANDS TRANSFER FALLACIES

1. FALLACY: STATES HAVE LEGAL RIGHT TO THOSE FEDERAL PUBLIC LANDS; THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT HAS NO LEGAL AUTHORITY TO OWN PUBLIC LANDS.
The Wallace Stegner Center at the University of Utah completed a legal analysis which concludes that Utah has no legal right to the lands it demands and furthermore the federal government has Constitutional authority to retain federal public lands, a conclusion borne out previously in US Supreme Court decisions. http://www.law.utah.edu/news/stegne...tahs-efforts-to-control-federal-public-lands/

2. FALLACY: PUBLIC LANDS WILL REMAIN AVAILABLE FOR PUBLIC ACCESS AND MULTIPLE USE.
State constitutions, such as that of Montana, predominantly mandate that state owned lands produce revenue as number one priority. Multiple use is secondary, if considered at all, and is typically limited. Multiple use is the keystone of federal public lands policy and the critical factor in the value to state’s citizens, as well as to the other Americans who own and enjoy that public land.

3. FALLACY: FEDERAL FUNDING WILL BE AVAILABLE FOR MANAGING THOSE STATE PUBLIC LANDS.
It is certain that taxpayers from other states more highly populated, who no longer are represented or retain ownership of the state public lands, will likewise no longer be willing to contribute tax dollars to manage other states’ lands.

4. FALLACY: EXPLOITATION OF NATURAL RESOURCES WILL PROVIDE NECESSARY REVENUE TO MANAGE STATE PUBLIC LANDS.
The Utah University system completed a fiscal analysis of financial impacts of the transfer of federal public lands to the State of Utah. The conclusion was that after the initial huge financial burden on Utah’s revenues, eventually natural resource exploitation, particularly extraction of fossil fuels, could potentially provide adequate revenues, but estimated with some uncertainty, based on the then relatively high fossil fuel prices. The paramount priority would be on fossil fuel extraction, with multiple use becoming almost insignificant. Current fossil fuel prices would significantly reduce that revenue to a management deficit.

5. FALLACY: PRESENTLY THERE IS NO LOCAL INPUT IN FEDERAL LAND MANAGEMENT DECISIONS.
By law there are publicized proposals and plans regarding federal public lands, which include public comment periods and hearings, often extended to maximize local public input opportunity, which is typically published as factors.

6. FALLACY: FEDERAL LAND MANAGEMENT DECISIONS ARE MADE IN FAR-OFF WASHINGTON, DC
Decisions, policies, and implementation are by agency personnel on-the-ground in the local areas affected. Public land managers, supervisors, rangers, officers, personnel who plan, decide, and implement policies are your neighbors and local service organization members, local youth sports team coaches, parents, PTA members, and hard working state citizens who live in your home town, people who also typically use those same public lands you enjoy.

7. FALLACY: UTILIZATION OF NATURAL RESOURCES WILL BE EASIER FOR STATES AND WILL BE BETTER MANAGED.
The assumption that state government can manage extraction of natural resources more efficiently and with fewer constraints than federal agencies is false. States are subject to the same laws and regulations imposed by Congress and now cited as hampering resource extraction from federal public lands. Furthermore, the same energy, mineral, and timber market value and trade agreement factors would impose similar constraints on state management.

8. FALLACY: THE STATE EMPLOYMENT PICTURE WILL BE IMPROVED.
The thousands of federal employees who presently contribute significantly to each state’s economy where they work and reside will be forced to undergo a transition apparently not considered to date. It is uncertain whether those positions would be terminated, would be transferred into state agencies, or would be retained. The relative compensation differences between federal and state personnel systems would create difficult challenges, peculiar to each state’s compensation system. The long-term impacts on states labor markets and employment pictures have not been clearly analyzed .
 
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Yup. And a few more addressed here.

[video=youtube_share;3TJCpuj8TjM]https://youtu.be/3TJCpuj8TjM?list=PLLdxutimd-JsEtFEIVd4kfFhn3EMTBRuC[/video]
 
Only thing I can argue is a part of #7, it may not be any easier for the state, but the state (at least in Mt's case) would better manage it for return on the $$.

The best argument I have heard for Fed. retained ownership is the investment of generations of Non-residents tax dollars funding/shared ownership of BLM/FS, ect.. It simply would not be very fair to let a state, and the people of the state take ownership of something that has been held in ownership/trust of the whole populous of the U.S..
 
Excellent summation. Adding references, for example, a link to the Wallace Stegner Center study, would take it over the top.
 
Eric, you bring up a point I have been curious about when you mention the return the state would see from the land vs. the feds. I assume if the state were to manage what is now BLM that they would charge what they are currently charging for state grazing leases. Using very round numbers the cost would go from $2/AUM to $20/AUM. In your opinion is that a reasonable assumption and if so does anyone with a BLM grazing lease support a federal lands transfer? Just curious to hear from someone who would be affected on the business end of a transfer.
 
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Eric, you bring up a point I have been curious about when you mention the return the state would see from the land vs. the feds. I assume if the state were to manage what is now BLM that they would charge what they are currently charging for state grazing leases. Using very round numbers the cost would go from $2/AUM to $20/AUM. In your opinion is that a reasonable assumption and if so does anyone with a BLM grazing lease support a federal lands transfer? Just curious to hear from someone who would be affected on the business end of a transfer.

I am not one of those affected, but my understanding is that many of the ranchers who utilize federal land to graze, are opposed to transfer. The increased cost would drive many out of business. I'd like to hear it first hand from someone affected by this, though.
 
Eric, you bring up a point I have been curious about when you mention the return the state would see from the land vs. the feds. I assume if the state were to manage what is now BLM that they would charge what they are currently charging for state grazing leases. Using very round numbers the cost would go from $2/AUM to $20/AUM. In your opinion is that a reasonable assumption and if so does anyone with a BLM grazing lease support a federal lands transfer? Just curious to hear from someone who would be affected on the business end of a transfer.

The state would put the leases out for bid. In many cases there would be only one bidder so the cost would be the minimum bid. I can't remember the exact amount but it is no were near $20/AUM.
Most ranchers would not bid against their neighbors. There neighbors are often their best friends and the ones that are first to lend a hand in time of need. I would never jeopardize my relationship with my neighbors over a grazing lease.
There may only be one practical bidder on many leases. My family currently leases 5 separate parcels of BLM. On four of those parcels there is no water at all and the water on the 5th is limited at best. All of the cattle that graze on the lease must get their water on my private. I would be the only bidder on the leases.
Most smaller landowners are not full speed a head on the PLT if not against it out right. They understand that their fees are likely to go up but are more worried that the leases would be sold out to the high bidder. This may work if you are the Wilk's brothers but many ranchers would be hard pressed to buy the ground they lease.
 
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Most are in favor of keeping it status quo. The increase in fees/competition would drive most out of business. There are a lot of cases like antler stated with no competition, but then there are cases like here in the north east where there are millions of acres of BLM and competition would be fierce, not so much from neighbors but outside competitors.
 
It appears this topic is one that landowners & sportsmen agree upon. Finally, something to unite us and help us work together for each other's sake. Would be great if this was the beginning of bridging that gap. I'll keep my rose-colored glasses on for a while.
 
Last two posts were spot on.
Most ranchers here,large or small are gung ho don, & pretty much anti FS,BLM & gubberment in general.
They seem to think they will wind up owning these lands they have leased for years. None I know could buy it if it was sold in an open bid. They pay $10AUM on private here I think. Not many could pay $20AUM.
On open market the big $ will win.Even the trophy ranch collectors will have a hard time against Royal Dutch Shell,BP,Exxon,Standard Oil, or any number of mining companies.
If I recall most every grazing lease I saw in the Sierras & most of CA was owned by Shell or Standard Oil and subleased to the grazers.
The cartels that are logging and extracting in Canada ,Australia,Chile,Africa,etc would outbid everyone.
Heah,it's a free, select market.
 
...but the state (at least in Mt's case) would better manage it for return on the $$.
That may be true, Eric, but at what cost to hunting? Better return on the $$, which is the state's mandate by the state constitution would translate into a much lower priority for multiple use, especially hunting. Therefore, the public hunter or the outfitter will assume much more responsibility in that better return on the $$, probably by paying access fees to hunt. And it would follow that the NR hunter, your client who no longer has any ownership of these lands with wildlife, will pay a hefty fee to access and to hunt these lands. Worst case could be selling of those lands to the wealthy who want such wildlife habitat for their own, or leasing those lands for the big bucks (pun intended).
Any way you predict the potential outcome, it is surprising you would pose an argument regarding #7, Eric.
 
The state would put the leases out for bid. In many cases there would be only one bidder so the cost would be the minimum bid. I can't remember the exact amount but it is no were near $20/AUM.
Most ranchers would not bid against their neighbors. There neighbors are often their best friends and the ones that are first to lend a hand in time of need. I would never jeopardize my relationship with my neighbors over a grazing lease.
There may only be one practical bidder on many leases. My family currently leases 5 separate parcels of BLM. On four of those parcels there is no water at all and the water on the 5th is limited at best. All of the cattle that graze on the lease must get their water on my private. I would be the only bidder on the leases.
Most smaller landowners are not full speed a head on the PLT if not against it out right. They understand that their fees are likely to go up but are more worried that the leases would be sold out to the high bidder. This may work if you are the Wilk's brothers but many ranchers would be hard pressed to buy the ground they lease.


I bet I can outbid you for those 5 leases.

And I won't even give a shit about putting cattle on them.

Good luck trying to scratch out a living on your deeded land.
 
I would be the only bidder on the leases.
Maybe so, but the state would be required to maximize revenue from those five leases, so likely a much higher minimum bid would be required ... especially since other nearby state land leases already are for much more $$/AUM.
 
I bet I can outbid you for those 5 leases.

And I won't even give a shit about putting cattle on them.

Good luck trying to scratch out a living on your deeded land.

If you bid on a State grazing lease in Wyoming, you have to run cattle on it. Wonder who put that into the bidding process?
 
You mean the State of Wyoming would turn down my superior bid, that would fund State Schools, for an inferior financial offer, harming school children?
 

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