Fatal grizzly encounter

[SAJ-99]

Totally. Never said to send them to extinction. Just said it’s time to delist and open up hunting season on them, and put a little fear into them.

So you’re saying after we shoot a few, word will spread in the bear community and they will be on the lookout for humans and run the other direction? Seems like you are assigning human traits to bears. Bears have horrible eye sight and wake up from hibernation with a hangover.
Hunting or no hunting should be a population decision. Not “to put fear into them” because that isn’t going to happen.

 

[Straight Arrow]

Hunting or no hunting should be a population decision. Not “to put fear into them” because that isn’t going to happen.

Agreed. There are many factors to be considered and asserted in supporting delisting and then hunting opportunity. To continue to argue for putting "fear into them" is not a valid factor.

 

[SAJ-99]

Agreed. There are many factors to be considered and asserted in supporting delisting and then hunting opportunity. To continue to argue for putting "fear into them" is not a valid factor.

Yeah, I see the poster went with a hard pivot on that one after a couple of pages.

More bears can be good if it limits humans in prime hunting territory. That’s why the Breaks has so many problems. Hunters can run a dirty camp and not have to worry about uninvited visitors.

 

[mxracer317]

Hey, figured I should clear the air… No, i don’t think word will spread amongst the bears! It’s just a saying.

… So feel free to relax about it.

Apparently a few of you are butt hurt about the saying. So no need to keep posting on that phrase in one of my comments.

I will stand by this however. Grizzly bears time to be hunted in the L48 has come. States have determined that, not me. So don’t be all whiny and write replies like I was the one who decided that.

 

[Panda Bear]

If you read about me meeting my demise at the claws and teeth of a grizzly, say a prayer for my family and comfort them with the assurance that I preferred to die experiencing what I loved than to never have had the experiences of spending time in that country.

I agree.

We supposedly have approx 6500 Grizzlies. The number of DLP kills are not included in the harvested number (tags) so the exact number of grizzly kills per year is not known. However , the total number of bears have been fairly consistent for a couple of decades. After Valerie and her daughter was killed by a grizzly, the noise on both sides was very loud. Shockey and his followers wanted to increase the number of tags issued each year. The other side, who had just successfully shut down all hunting of the Grizzly in B.C. wanted Grizzly hunting in The Yukon to be banned. This group never had a legitimate reason for banning Grizzly hunts, so they used pictures of the Kermode bear, stating that there are only 100 of them left in the wild. Which is true, however, these bears are in the rainforest, on the coast of B.C., not in The Yukon, and are a sub species of the black bear, but they didn't care, hunting had to stop.

Nasty business. Curious if bear spray or firearm was deployed.

I was also curious about this. It isn't that difficult to take a can of spray and a handgun with you. I never understand someone going into an area that might have a grizzly without taking bear spray and a handgun ( carrying a handgun is not as easy up here, so perhaps a lever action rifle and a bottle of spray if you live in Canada )

Just so I understand where you're coming from, you think killing them will stop attacks?

There are more people in the woods and more bears. Killing a handful of bears isn't going to stop attacks from happening, hunting season or not. How many bears are shot in WY every year? 40-60? What is the proposed quota? Half that? Seems like the fear should be there already.

We shoot a couple thousand grizzly here every year, yet we still have maulings. Every year. Putting the fear of man in them sure doesn't seem to be the solution. Hard for them to pass on the word when their dead

I agree.

 

[SAJ-99]

Hey, figured I should clear the air… No, i don’t think word will spread amongst the bears! It’s just a saying.

… So feel free to relax about it.

Apparently a few of you are butt hurt about the saying. So no need to keep posting on that phrase in one of my comments.

I will stand by this however. Grizzly bears time to be hunted in the L48 has come. States have determined that, not me. So don’t be all whiny and write replies like I was the one who decided that.

Sure. No problem.
Just to clarify, it’s not the states’ decision or determination if there should be a hunting season. That is the Federal management of the ESA. While I may agree that it is time, and the grizzly bear should be seen as a success, states haven’t shown a solid ability to manage anything very well. Especially in regards to social aspect of the actions. It is also why it ends up in court so fast. Any management plan that involves hunting should be solid and defendable.

 

[mxracer317]

I agree.

We supposedly have approx 6500 Grizzlies. The number of DLP kills are not included in the harvested number (tags) so the exact number of grizzly kills per year is not known. However , the total number of bears have been fairly consistent for a couple of decades. After Valerie and her daughter was killed by a grizzly, the noise on both sides was very loud. Shockey and his followers wanted to increase the number of tags issued each year. The other side, who had just successfully shut down all hunting of the Grizzly in B.C. wanted Grizzly hunting in The Yukon to be banned. This group never had a legitimate reason for banning Grizzly hunts, so they used pictures of the Kermode bear, stating that there are only 100 of them left in the wild. Which is true, however, these bears are in the rainforest, on the coast of B.C., not in The Yukon, and are a sub species of the black bear, but they didn't care, hunting had to stop.

I was also curious about this. It isn't that difficult to take a can of spray and a handgun with you. I never understand someone going into an area that might have a grizzly without taking bear spray and a handgun ( carrying a handgun is not as easy up here, so perhaps a lever action rifle and a bottle of spray if you live in Canada )



I agree. I have yet to see a grizzly on his cell phone alerting all the other grizzlies in his area to hide, a human is coming your way.

Sure. No problem.
Just to clarify, it’s not the states’ decision or determination if there should be a hunting season. That is the Federal management of the ESA. While I may agree that it is time, and the grizzly bear should be seen as a success, states haven’t shown a solid ability to manage anything very well. Especially in regards to social aspect of the actions. It is also why it ends up in court so fast. Any management plan that involves hunting should be solid and defendable.

Agreed. That’s why I said over and over now that things can be reassessed and readjusted on a yearly basis.

 

[runningmt]

Heart goes out to the family, sad to see this happen to anyone, and being a fellow Livingstoner, it hits close to home.

Part of the reason many of us live here is the wild, unknown areas we can get to with minimal effort from here.

No day is guaranteed, never does a day in the wilderness go exactly as expected, or there would be no reason to go.

Whether griz are hunted or not, as long as we frequent where they live, this will occasionally happen. As will hypothermia. As will disorientation. As will falls. As will vehicle accidents.

While I do not want to see this happen to anyone, guaranteeing that has a cost no one should be willing to pay.

 

[tjones]

Does a grizzly know the difference between a grizzly hunter and one of the scads of guys wearing orange hunting elk, spring bears, wolves, deer or any other critter?

Seems to me up until the moment the grizzly gets shot he has no clue he is being hunted.

They do need to be delisted and hunted but thinking a handful of grizzly hunters will slow down attacks just makes no sense.

 

[Red Fox]

Does a grizzly know the difference between a grizzly hunter and one of the scads of guys wearing orange hunting elk, spring bears, wolves, deer or any other critter?

Seems to me up until the moment the grizzly gets shot he has no clue he is being hunted.

They do need to be delisted and hunted but thinking a handful of grizzly hunters will slow down attacks just makes no sense.

I agree with you on what you are saying, but you lost me at the end. To say that hunting will not slow down attacks is wrong. Without hunting they will keep expanding their range. This will lead to more and more conflicts.

Hunting will not stop this from happening or put fear of humans into them but it may prevent an attack. For now we will never know as it will take years and a ton of lawsuits before they are delisted.

 

[lastlight]

Anything is possible, most likely bears won’t learn much if only a hand few tags are issued. But If grizz hunters were to shoot at, miss clean, wound, etc as many bears as they do elk I’m sure at least SOME bears will get a different feeling about man in the lower 48. Even if just one single bear thinks twice before ripping a woman from her tent. Some of you are so black and white in your thought process. Who cares bottom line is they need to be managed like any other big game animal on the landscape.

 

[runningmt]

I agree with you on what you are saying, but you lost me at the end. To say that hunting will not slow down attacks is wrong. Without hunting they will keep expanding their range. This will lead to more and more conflicts.

Hunting will not stop this from happening or put fear of humans into them but it may prevent an attack. For now we will never know as it will take years and a ton of lawsuits before they are delisted.

Even if hunting reduced current populations, and no expansion of range were seen, there will be more encounters in the future. These areas are currently seeing rapid growth in human populations, and visitors flocking to Montana, Idaho, and Wyoming, many uneducated and unprepared.

To see any reduction in these occurrences, the population of griz would have to be drastically reduced, with negative growth until their eventual extinction.

Shooting a few every year would do nothing to prevent an occasional attack, many are shot every year, hasn’t worked yet.

 

[34umgmn]

We all have a responsibility to return home to our families…some reduce risk, some up-armor, some don’t care.

Bears are the reason I hate how little light I get from my headlamp during ~2am nature calls…rifle loaded, pitch black, attempting to sweep my head around 360 degrees…as if it helps

 

[longbow51]

I don't know about bears not learning; sure didn't take long for them to learn that a gunshot during elk season might mean dinner. Maybe if they came upon a bear gutpile or two. Not saying I know, just that we don't really know on what level they think.

And pheasants sure as heck learn what the sound of a pickup truck door opening sounds like pretty quick.

 

[Gerald Martin]

Some folks seem to think that every time a bear sees a human they attack…

The vast majority of bear/human encounters ends with the bears running off when they realize a human is close. Or, if not running off at least leaving the area to avoid getting closer.

 

[Dirthog67]

We all have a responsibility to return home to our families…some reduce risk, some up-armor, some don’t care.

Bears are the reason I hate how little light I get from my headlamp during ~2am nature calls…rifle loaded, pitch black, attempting to sweep my head around 360 degrees…as if it helps

No details have been released on this attack and its pretty gross to suggest some fault on this man in this attack without any details.

Additionally, grizzly bear attacks are still very rare considering how many people go into grizzly bear territory each year. I think some one above said another hunter is more likely to kill you.

 

[Dirthog67]

I don't know about bears not learning; sure didn't take long for them to learn that a gunshot during elk season might mean dinner. Maybe if they came upon a bear gutpile or two. Not saying I know, just that we don't really know on what level they think.

And pheasants sure as heck learn what the sound of a pickup truck door opening sounds like pretty quick.

We know how they act in other areas where they are hunted. We know how the react to perceived threats. We know that they are typically solitary except for mothers and cubs. We know what the bear experts say.

A sound being associated with a food source is way different than figuring out the sound that they associated with elk remains to eat is now responsible for that other bear they were avoiding disappearing...

 

[Red Fox]

Even if hunting reduced current populations, and no expansion of range were seen, there will be more encounters in the future. These areas are currently seeing rapid growth in human populations, and visitors flocking to Montana, Idaho, and Wyoming, many uneducated and unprepared.

To see any reduction in these occurrences, the population of griz would have to be drastically reduced, with negative growth until their eventual extinction.

Shooting a few every year would do nothing to prevent an occasional attack, many are shot every year, hasn’t worked yet.

So what is the answer? I never said hunting would stop all attacks but it could possible could slow down expansion. The more they expand into more areas the more likely they are going to get into trouble. There is a lot more people in the back country but the last few attacks are not happening there. Last spring a guy was killed just north of West Yellowstone, he was just going fishing not far from his truck. This guy was on a day hike. Just shows you that you need to be aware at all times in Grizzly country or close to it as that is expanding.

Not saying hunting is the answer just think it is time to start to manage them. I don't think hunting them to extinction is either.

 

[34umgmn]

No details have been released on this attack and its pretty gross to suggest some fault on this man in this attack without any details.

Additionally, grizzly bear attacks are still very rare considering how many people go into grizzly bear territory each year. I think some one above said another hunter is more likely to kill you.

You may be right, I may be overly optimistic about how much control we have in avoiding/countering fatal attacks.

 

[Dirthog67]

You may be right, I may be overly optimistic about how much control we have in avoiding/countering fatal attacks.

Its comforting to blame the victim because then you can tell yourself it could never happen to you.