Big bulls in Montana have been no secret to guys that hunt here year after year. (Chuck Adams wacked a couple Booners.) Personally, I like the opportunity to kill a bull every year, and do. But I also have the opportunity to kill a "Quality" bull as well. So far my quality is about 330 inches. I've had a special draw tag here in Montana and know how hard it is to tie a tag on a B&C bull ( 370 inches I believe for all-time.) There is a pretty good balance here. Guess it might not be a secret forever. Mule deer? With the exception of a few areas, there is a lot of work to do. mtmuley
Elk Quality v. Opportunity
- Thread starter Big Fin
- Start date
lbirch
Member
The problem with the UT DWR is they increased the tags on too many limited entry areas. Most areas are now managed for 320-330 bulls. Oh I'm certain these areas will still produce bigger bulls but far fewer like the info Randy indicated.
There's only a few areas left where they manage for B&C class bulls. And the odds for areas like Monroe or San Juan, where they kept the tag quota down managing for 360+ bulls, have shot through the roof. Those areas should be renamed to once in a lifetime hunts because you'll probably only ever have one.
spook12
New member
Not if you have enough CASH!
sweetnectar
New member
I know some guys after killing a B&C animal quietly hang it on the wall or put it in the garage and enjoy the meat with out even giving the books a second thought while others wish to share their trophies and other perhaps brag. I'm sure there are many different reasons to enter the books or not to.
But I was wondering if you have or know anyone who has let a B&C animal walk? Or in the words of Eminem "If you had once shot or one opportunity to seize everything you ever wanted in one moment would you capture it, or just let it slip?"
But I was wondering if you have or know anyone who has let a B&C animal walk? Or in the words of Eminem "If you had once shot or one opportunity to seize everything you ever wanted in one moment would you capture it, or just let it slip?"
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I do.....
His name is sweetnector.....this year he let lots of b&c bulls walk. Don't know why. Niether can anybody who knows him. : ). Just razzin you, Abe!!!!
I killed a 168 net mule deer with my bow a few years back. You're darn right I put him in p&y.
Why? 2 reasons:
1. Out of respect for the animal. The award is for the animal, not the hunter.
2. Because of how bad I suck as a clumbsy wanna-be hunter it will most likely never happen again. If I ever kill a net 360+ bull I'd put him in b&c. Why? For the two reasons I just said.
His name is sweetnector.....this year he let lots of b&c bulls walk. Don't know why. Niether can anybody who knows him. : ). Just razzin you, Abe!!!!
I killed a 168 net mule deer with my bow a few years back. You're darn right I put him in p&y.
Why? 2 reasons:
1. Out of respect for the animal. The award is for the animal, not the hunter.
2. Because of how bad I suck as a clumbsy wanna-be hunter it will most likely never happen again. If I ever kill a net 360+ bull I'd put him in b&c. Why? For the two reasons I just said.
Devil Diver Down
Well-known member
Same with me. Even after I recovered from what I would term a 'heart episode' - 'attack' is an ugly word - I doubt I would enter it. Probably wouldn't even have the time. Shooting a raghorn was thrilling enough to me - and I was proud enough to share the experience with others. Let me tell you, going door to door can be exhausting when you live in a big city...
'Excuse me, ma'am, you don't know me. I live a few streets down and I'm not sure if you noticed the bull elk I killed last week. You mind if I come in for a minute and show you some pictures?'
My goofy humor aside, I like Fin's point about enjoying a good mix of quality and opportunity. Good to know that they're not - or at least don't need to be - mutually exclusive. I plan on hunting elk at every reasonable/possible occasion. And while I don't expect to ever shoot a book-worthy animal, it's nice to know they're out there. And that the tags can be had by guys who don't want to wait for 'that one year when I hunted elk.'
El Jason
Well-known member
Once the animal is reduced to white packages in the freezer, I'm guessing he doesn't give two shats about being in a book or not.
Dinkshooter
Well-known member
Like Fin, but for only 2 of the Colorado bulls I know a little background. 1 did come off a 10,000 ranch with only one guy hunting it. Not busting his chops but he was chasing bulls the average Colorado OTC guy does not see. Pig archery bull. Man that would be a dream come true.
Also an aggressive official measurer can make an area or a year seem better than it may be.
Also an aggressive official measurer can make an area or a year seem better than it may be.
Dinkshooter
Well-known member
None for 2010 to present stuff I saw. Which is very suprising.
Frequently Banned Troll
Well-known member
Interesting numbers! It doesn't take B&C stats to know that Montana is THE state to live in, if you like to hunt elk.
As for the B&C entries, the annual visit with the likes of Roger Selner or Fred King are worth the process, regardless of the animal's final measurements.
I wish I had a dollar for every time I've heard the "if I ever, I would never" regarding putting a legit B&C animal into the books, even the 3yr awards book.
Any animal that truly makes the B&C cut is very special, even with all the critters listed above it. Even more so, when you consider how many are taken behind a locked gate, where a guy had to wait 5-20 years to draw, or tag along with a stranger on the dole to succeed. To each their own, but antler score is not a measurement of the hunt, by any means.
My boy and his pal, having their 1st bucks measured by Fred King. Good times..
As for the B&C entries, the annual visit with the likes of Roger Selner or Fred King are worth the process, regardless of the animal's final measurements.
I wish I had a dollar for every time I've heard the "if I ever, I would never" regarding putting a legit B&C animal into the books, even the 3yr awards book.
Any animal that truly makes the B&C cut is very special, even with all the critters listed above it. Even more so, when you consider how many are taken behind a locked gate, where a guy had to wait 5-20 years to draw, or tag along with a stranger on the dole to succeed. To each their own, but antler score is not a measurement of the hunt, by any means.
My boy and his pal, having their 1st bucks measured by Fred King. Good times..
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Hem
Well-known member
Fred King is a good chit,though I couldn't get him to stretch his tape(1/4") to get one of my Montana antelope in to the all-time Booner.
Frequently Banned Troll
Well-known member
Fred King is a good chit,though I couldn't get him to stretch his tape(1/4") to get one of my Montana antelope in to the all-time Booner.
It is what it is with Fred - he's all about precision. I doubt there a more experience B&C measurer alive, and he always gives a good tutorial on how to measure animals correctly. The boys enjoyed learning how to do it from the master!
Straight Arrow
Well-known member
Great points, Greenhorn.
Fred King, retired Montana FWP Wildlife Management Areas manager and all-around true wildlife professional, could write a book on "Elk Quality vs Opportunity." He has been researching, analyzing, and talking about wildlife habitat and hunting for decades ... as well as providing his official scoring services and skills wherever they are requested.
Fred King, retired Montana FWP Wildlife Management Areas manager and all-around true wildlife professional, could write a book on "Elk Quality vs Opportunity." He has been researching, analyzing, and talking about wildlife habitat and hunting for decades ... as well as providing his official scoring services and skills wherever they are requested.
Lawnboy
Well-known member
+1 on the points about Fred. Hopefully he has rubbed off on any of the upcoming biologists that have worked with him. Actually if his "bosses" all the way to the top would exemplify a quarter of his attitude the department would be totally different.
noharleyyet
Well-known member
Met an older gent from San Antonio during my SW Co elk hunt this season. We were both hunting a ranch on the Utah border and had high hopes of seeing some some good bulls...was his first elk hunt. He told me he was passing on anything under 330. Guess my grin must've thumped his pride a bit coz he got a bit indignant on me. I told him politely that I'd be happy just to see anything over 250.
Well, he made a very nice 500 yard shot on a splendid 317 giant bodied bull not 30 mins after sunrise opening morning. It was the only bull I saw dead or alive the entire hunt. I congratulated him on his good fortune and great shot and he was very humble. A couple days later he looked me up and said, "I see now how arrogant and stupid I must've sounded." I told him not at all, that my first bold proclamation 10 years ago was nothing under 350 on public during an OTC season.
Well, he made a very nice 500 yard shot on a splendid 317 giant bodied bull not 30 mins after sunrise opening morning. It was the only bull I saw dead or alive the entire hunt. I congratulated him on his good fortune and great shot and he was very humble. A couple days later he looked me up and said, "I see now how arrogant and stupid I must've sounded." I told him not at all, that my first bold proclamation 10 years ago was nothing under 350 on public during an OTC season.
Devil Diver Down
Well-known member
Not true. Colorado has 300,000 elk. I read it somewhere... maybe on the CDOW website.
While I appreciate Colorado's standing offer to hunt elk every year, I probably won't ever take them up on it. At least not in SW Colorado. I might have to budget some more $$$ for a tag, gas, etc and see how badly the elk in Montana can whip me.
sweetnectar
New member
When it comes to B&C mule deer I'd put my money on stubaby getting it done. Seems some guys get really good at knowing where and how to find large antlered animals.
I like that we score animals in that it helps us in understand the antler size to a point when someone is telling their hunting adventure. The B&C score doesn't do justice for mass in my opinion. Perhaps what makes a trophy is in they eye of the beholder.
I like that we score animals in that it helps us in understand the antler size to a point when someone is telling their hunting adventure. The B&C score doesn't do justice for mass in my opinion. Perhaps what makes a trophy is in they eye of the beholder.
Zim
Well-known member
Interesting P&Y list. 3 of the bulls on the list are mine. The chart says only an average of 8 P&Y per year for Nevada. I passed on more than double that many during my 10 day hunt there. Ended up taking a 350". I wonder what percentage of folks bother to enter them in books. My bet is not many. Heck on both the NV & AZ hunts it would be next to impossible not to shoot a P&Y. Only way is if a guy has high standards and lets them all walk.
I passed on more than double that many during my 10 day hunt there. Ended up taking a 350". I wonder what percentage of folks bother to enter them in books. My bet is not many. Heck on both the NV & AZ hunts it would be next to impossible not to shoot a P&Y. Only way is if a guy has high standards and lets them all walk.
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