The Hedgehog
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Hold out for a nice one
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Elk Lesson for Moosie
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wyomingtim
Member
I think that is some good advice Greenhorn. Although my biggest is a small 6 point, I would have to agree. When I get lucky enough to draw one of those, I would rather tell the story of passing up on some decent bulls and missing out rather than the story of shooting a good bull only later to find out that I missed a chance on a once in a lifetime bull.
Did I see a 13 second video of that bull in velvet?
I agree Moosie, you better kill something huge in UT or come hope empty-handed...
The Hedgehog
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nope, no video of that one.
I hear he's out looking today. Hoping to see some pics of what they're after tonight. Anything less than REAL nice on the UT hunt would be tough to swallow.
Of course this is coming from someone who's never killed a bull elk...
Of course this is coming from someone who's never killed a bull elk...
noharleyyet
Well-known member
Enjoyed the story GreenH...sounds like practical advice for coveted tag holders.
Damn Greenhorn. Now you're making me think too hard about this AZ mule deer thing.
After reading your post last night, I gave it a lot of thought. Here is where I am.
Unit 13A for deer will never come my way again. The new point system in AZ will make it a statistical impossibility. I have shot lots of deer and some "nice" ones. No "really nice" ones. I hope to have a chance to shoot some "really nice" ones in the future, so "really nice" is not on the menu for this hunt. "Nice" and "really nice" being off the board, leaves nothing but an "unbelievable" buck.
So there you have it. I probably couldn't accurately judge a booner if he was pissin' on my leg, but if he is so big I almost piss down my own leg, then I am going to shoot. I am not into book scores, so net score doesn't matter to me. Neither does gross score, other than it gives me an idea of relative size and a comparison to what this unit has produced in the past.
I expect to come home without a deer. Not that I want to come home empty handed, but if it is not a deer that absolutely blows me away, he will get the chance to live another day. So don't any of you guys hang around here waiting for pictures, 'cause there most likely won't be any.
Now that I have said that, I realize that I will most likely come home empty handed. Not a problem. I am not known as a killer of big deer - that would be my teenage son, so no one expects any different of me.
Now I will hear from those of you "in the know" if my goals are stupid. Which I am interested to hear.
After reading your post last night, I gave it a lot of thought. Here is where I am.
Unit 13A for deer will never come my way again. The new point system in AZ will make it a statistical impossibility. I have shot lots of deer and some "nice" ones. No "really nice" ones. I hope to have a chance to shoot some "really nice" ones in the future, so "really nice" is not on the menu for this hunt. "Nice" and "really nice" being off the board, leaves nothing but an "unbelievable" buck.
So there you have it. I probably couldn't accurately judge a booner if he was pissin' on my leg, but if he is so big I almost piss down my own leg, then I am going to shoot. I am not into book scores, so net score doesn't matter to me. Neither does gross score, other than it gives me an idea of relative size and a comparison to what this unit has produced in the past.
I expect to come home without a deer. Not that I want to come home empty handed, but if it is not a deer that absolutely blows me away, he will get the chance to live another day. So don't any of you guys hang around here waiting for pictures, 'cause there most likely won't be any.
Now that I have said that, I realize that I will most likely come home empty handed. Not a problem. I am not known as a killer of big deer - that would be my teenage son, so no one expects any different of me.
Now I will hear from those of you "in the know" if my goals are stupid. Which I am interested to hear.
I don't think your goals are 'stupid'. Heck, one of the best things about hunting is that you can make of it what you wish. For instance, I worked with a guy that drew a Paunsagaunt tag last year and came home with a two point! Not my idea of using the tag to it's fullest, but it was the first hunt that his son was able to go with him and and he seemed happy with the hunt. But, I'd like to have the mindset like you and GH that for these 'once in a lifetime' tags, especially for species you can hunt regularly there's no harm in holding out for a hawg.
Yea, I agree. When i go to AZ for that lope hunt I am holding out for a 65" or better lope. Go big or go drinking!!
On a real note, I agree to a point, but it also depends on what your standards are. Kurt, you have killed more huge bulls than most of us put together so it may be a little easier for you not to get rattled by a 355 bull screaming his head off than some of us will. If i get My UT tag next year, it will be an archery hunt and I would have lower standards because of it. Since i have only killed a few Elk i would have a real hard time passing a 360 bull in any unit with a stick and string. Now rifle is a different story as i know the game is much easier.
And another point, I have never once killed a lope. I really do want to kill a big boy on this AZ tag but if I have some ground shrinkage it won't be the end of the world for me as long as it is still considered a big lope for most parts. I watched that DVD about judging lopes and sat there thinking "what the hell, is a guy supposed to carry a calculator with him?" I will shoot a big one, maybe not a super monster and probably never put a tape to it anyway because 99% of anyone that would see it on my wall would have no clue if it was a big one or a huge one. Bottom line is i will be happy with what i shoot since it will be my first one, and probably the biggest one i will shoot.
All i care is that it is bigger than Axle this time
On a real note, I agree to a point, but it also depends on what your standards are. Kurt, you have killed more huge bulls than most of us put together so it may be a little easier for you not to get rattled by a 355 bull screaming his head off than some of us will. If i get My UT tag next year, it will be an archery hunt and I would have lower standards because of it. Since i have only killed a few Elk i would have a real hard time passing a 360 bull in any unit with a stick and string. Now rifle is a different story as i know the game is much easier.
And another point, I have never once killed a lope. I really do want to kill a big boy on this AZ tag but if I have some ground shrinkage it won't be the end of the world for me as long as it is still considered a big lope for most parts. I watched that DVD about judging lopes and sat there thinking "what the hell, is a guy supposed to carry a calculator with him?" I will shoot a big one, maybe not a super monster and probably never put a tape to it anyway because 99% of anyone that would see it on my wall would have no clue if it was a big one or a huge one. Bottom line is i will be happy with what i shoot since it will be my first one, and probably the biggest one i will shoot.
All i care is that it is bigger than Axle this time
BuzzH
Well-known member
Bigfin,
You got the right idea, why shoot an average buck in a unit that produces bucks of a lifetime?
My buddy Doug ate a breaks elk tag several years ago after passing on many, many nice bulls. Bulls that 99% of the tag holders would have shot in a heartbeat. We saw a bull for 3 consecutive days (including opening day) that was worthy of about any tag you'd ever draw...just a dandy. I'm not a great judge of bull elk, but I know for a fact that bull was not less than 360 net. We both studied it for hours through spotting scopes.
Our only opportunity was opening day and it would have been a shot at around 550. I'm pretty sure Doug could have made the shot, but he decided to pass for a better opportunity.
We hunted for another 4 days never seeing that bull again. Doug hunted another 17 days and never saw it again. He did pass on several bulls in the 340 range and eventually went without.
We've talked about the hunt a lot, he has no regrets. Most guys that we know thought he was an idiot for not killing one of the 340 class bulls he passed.
I think he did the right thing. I doubt I would have had the discipline that Doug showed on that hunt.
But, to each their own.
You got the right idea, why shoot an average buck in a unit that produces bucks of a lifetime?
My buddy Doug ate a breaks elk tag several years ago after passing on many, many nice bulls. Bulls that 99% of the tag holders would have shot in a heartbeat. We saw a bull for 3 consecutive days (including opening day) that was worthy of about any tag you'd ever draw...just a dandy. I'm not a great judge of bull elk, but I know for a fact that bull was not less than 360 net. We both studied it for hours through spotting scopes.
Our only opportunity was opening day and it would have been a shot at around 550. I'm pretty sure Doug could have made the shot, but he decided to pass for a better opportunity.
We hunted for another 4 days never seeing that bull again. Doug hunted another 17 days and never saw it again. He did pass on several bulls in the 340 range and eventually went without.
We've talked about the hunt a lot, he has no regrets. Most guys that we know thought he was an idiot for not killing one of the 340 class bulls he passed.
I think he did the right thing. I doubt I would have had the discipline that Doug showed on that hunt.
But, to each their own.
Moosie
Grand poopa
Greeny, I'm not gonig to guess on the size of elk I'm going to kill either. Although after Scouting for just a couple hours this weekend and seeing what I saw, I know finding one won't be an issue unless it's 180 Degrees different then what I saw Sat. We saw several good bulls. And the country was Puss hills !!
Keep my Trap shut ? Hell, I never saw that place and don't know were you've kilt any of your bulls or know how you hunt them or what state you even go to, you know that.....right
Although that Picture is kinda cool, I'm not even sure that is you in it.
You should also know that I regard you as the top most hunter I know, although several people come close to ya I still laugh and think back on the trips we made together. Me being ass worn out and you up the hill 20 yards from me hitting me in the back of the head with a candy bar telling me to eat it and keep going is still a classic in my book. I've used that one on several of my hunts with others since That being said, I also know you understand that not everyone scouts elk in Aug and keeps tabs on them till the opening of the season. I know guys that hunt all their life and never smoke a 6 point bull. Many average hunters wouldn't know the first thing about or how to go about getting one. And others luck upon them. I would like to think I'm a little above that but I'm still average from the standpoint of a 300+ bull is a good bull to me, period. YAh, not great... but is still a good dang bull.
I could go to Utah and smoke a 320 bull and you'll see a smile on my face like I killed a 420" bull. The people on the hunt I'm going on and the pictures along the way scouting is what it's about to me. I like the pre story.... the middle story and like the endings, be it good or great.
That being said, I'm holding out more and more and taking (slowly) better and better animals. Guys like You and others have taught me not to just pull the trigger. But time is always a limiting factor as well.
Hunting with idaho Bugler his waiting ability is phanomonal. when we were in New mexico by the 2nd to last day I'm ansy and he waits cool and calmly till the 2nd strike in the 9th inning.
I'm also not good with judging. I haven't held enough big bone in my hands... Uhhhhhh... Antlers I mean.. to know the difference between a 340 and a 360. I do know that of the 20+ bulls we did see I would take the 345" 6x8 over a 360" straight 6x6. I just thought it was the coolest elk and would love to look at it every day for the rest of my life in the living room
Will I eat a tag this year ? I might,although would rather not. Would I kick myself if I killed a lesser bull than whats in the unit ? NAhhhh. That being said I'll give 'er a great effort like always. I have several good tags and alot of places to go again in a limited amount of time...(again) and, times getting close, real close, I'm fired up !!!!
If you're bored on Sept 15-16th, I can keep ya busy with a great time.
Keep my Trap shut ? Hell, I never saw that place and don't know were you've kilt any of your bulls or know how you hunt them or what state you even go to, you know that.....right
Although that Picture is kinda cool, I'm not even sure that is you in it. You should also know that I regard you as the top most hunter I know, although several people come close to ya
I still laugh and think back on the trips we made together. Me being ass worn out and you up the hill 20 yards from me hitting me in the back of the head with a candy bar telling me to eat it and keep going is still a classic in my book. I've used that one on several of my hunts with others since That being said, I also know you understand that not everyone scouts elk in Aug and keeps tabs on them till the opening of the season. I know guys that hunt all their life and never smoke a 6 point bull. Many average hunters wouldn't know the first thing about or how to go about getting one. And others luck upon them. I would like to think I'm a little above that but I'm still average from the standpoint of a 300+ bull is a good bull to me, period. YAh, not great... but is still a good dang bull.I could go to Utah and smoke a 320 bull and you'll see a smile on my face like I killed a 420" bull. The people on the hunt I'm going on and the pictures along the way scouting is what it's about to me. I like the pre story.... the middle story and like the endings, be it good or great.
That being said, I'm holding out more and more and taking (slowly) better and better animals. Guys like You and others have taught me not to just pull the trigger. But time is always a limiting factor as well.
Hunting with idaho Bugler his waiting ability is phanomonal. when we were in New mexico by the 2nd to last day I'm ansy and he waits cool and calmly till the 2nd strike in the 9th inning.
I'm also not good with judging. I haven't held enough big bone in my hands... Uhhhhhh... Antlers I mean
.. to know the difference between a 340 and a 360. I do know that of the 20+ bulls we did see I would take the 345" 6x8 over a 360" straight 6x6. I just thought it was the coolest elk and would love to look at it every day for the rest of my life in the living room Will I eat a tag this year ? I might,although would rather not. Would I kick myself if I killed a lesser bull than whats in the unit ? NAhhhh. That being said I'll give 'er a great effort like always. I have several good tags and alot of places to go again in a limited amount of time...(again) and, times getting close, real close, I'm fired up !!!!
If you're bored on Sept 15-16th, I can keep ya busy with a great time.
Tom
New member
Well, good luck, whatever you decide to shoot, when you decide to shoot, if you decide to shoot!
The Hedgehog
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schmalts what the heck are you talking about passing up 360 elk with a bow.. Yikes! I sure as heck wouldn't. That's awful big.
But if you shoot a thinhorned 14" antelope in that AZ unit, you need to be licked in the balls.
I saw a bull moose the other day that sure looked nice. Will be hard to let moose go like that but I think I should.
But if you shoot a thinhorned 14" antelope in that AZ unit, you need to be licked in the balls.
I saw a bull moose the other day that sure looked nice. Will be hard to let moose go like that but I think I should.
Bambistew
Well-known member
Pretty intersting to read this... I've never drawn an LE tag for a good unit, but if I do it will be all or nothing.
its perfect advise for any hunt with a good expectation of trophy type animals. I think the two mistakes most commonly made are
#1. Pulling the trigger to soon
#2. Not being in the right mental state
I will certainly help moosie as much as I can in Utah. All kidding a side, I think he knows he has an opportunity at a great animal and is willing to fork out the time and dedication to make it really pay off. Just talking with him over the weekend was good and I saw how serious is thinking about this hunt. He will still have his work cut out for him to kill a bull of a lifetime.
#1. Pulling the trigger to soon
#2. Not being in the right mental state
I will certainly help moosie as much as I can in Utah. All kidding a side, I think he knows he has an opportunity at a great animal and is willing to fork out the time and dedication to make it really pay off. Just talking with him over the weekend was good and I saw how serious is thinking about this hunt. He will still have his work cut out for him to kill a bull of a lifetime.
noharleyyet
Well-known member
Posts like these exemplify how important cooperation and fellowship among hunters really is.
Kurt, I havent been on any of the TOP limited draw UT hunt areas but from a few of the guys I talked with, a 360 bull is not anything "rare" to see on those units. It depends on where you are hunting I guess, but if I was in the Unit I tried for this year a 360 bull would definitly walk if i had a rifle tag until later in the hunt. I can't judge Lopes for jack, but I do have a great eye for Elk and if anything i usually under score them. Come to think of it, The reason i have eaten elk tags is because i probably set my standards too high for the areas i have been hunting. But this year I will lower them for elk and get some meat in the freezer if I can. If i get a shot at any 6X in the archery season it is going down unless i have seen a monster before then that is making me hold out.
Please be gentle with the ball kicking after my lope hunt, They may be tender from AZ402 kicking them already for shooting that elusive 70" lope .
Please be gentle with the ball kicking after my lope hunt, They may be tender from AZ402 kicking them already for shooting that elusive 70" lope
.BuzzH
Well-known member
From my experience, there arent very many 375 bulls, 180 mule deer, 82 inch antelope, 180 bighorns, 170 dall sheep, etc. in the "top units". Most of the people claiming theres animals like that around every tree in those units are full of crap.
I dont care what tag you have for what elk area...passing a true net (hell even GROSS) 360 bull with a bow, rifle, spear, or slingshot is not a good plan...no matter how many the local "experts" tell you there are.
Like I said, most are just plain full of crap. Not many honest 360 bulls killed a year nation-wide.
I dont care what tag you have for what elk area...passing a true net (hell even GROSS) 360 bull with a bow, rifle, spear, or slingshot is not a good plan...no matter how many the local "experts" tell you there are.
Like I said, most are just plain full of crap. Not many honest 360 bulls killed a year nation-wide.
I have to innerject (sp) for a sec. I have been on what we the residents of utah consider the top 5 limited entry units in utah. If putting in for the unit Schmalts is putting in for... he will have wasted a tag by killing a 360 bull with a bow before the last day. I was on that unit last year during the archery, rifle and muzz seasons. I saw 40-60 bulls a day with several being 360 type bulls. now, passing a bull 370 is a different story. Thats the fine line on those units. We passed (on the unit he is putting in for) a 380, 390, and a 375 bull on the first two days of the season trying to find the 414 bull we found before the season. (It was harvested later in the year by one of Doyles hunters). We went back for the 390 bull but he had been chased by other hunters and disappeared. The 380 bull was killed on day #2 and we killed the 375 bull two days before the hunt was over.
All that being said. There was not a single day where we could not have killed a 360 bull. I will admit, a bow is harder, but on a unit like that, 360 is a disappointment.
Dont have these expectations for moosies hunt. He did not draw Utahs premier unit.
All that being said. There was not a single day where we could not have killed a 360 bull. I will admit, a bow is harder, but on a unit like that, 360 is a disappointment.
Dont have these expectations for moosies hunt. He did not draw Utahs premier unit.
