Elk Idaho

JLS said:
I'm going to get my tin foil. Anyone else want some?
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Might help you as it seems you are the proverbial expert here and the only one with an opinion that matters or knows what he is talking about. Great avatar for you. Is that why you are here? To be the punisher?
 
jeffnvegas said:
He asked why a shame. Not expecting anyone to provide me a 400 Bull. I was offering an alternative management option. But it seems no matter what comment I have one or more of you are going to find a negative to condemn my opinion. So be it. I am a 65 year old disabled Veteran who is no more entitled to his opinion or to extol on his experience than anyone else. I am also an out of stater that really has no business opining any Idaho management systems. That is for you homeboys to weigh in on. Accept what you are willing to endure but remember you all ain't paying the out of state price for a permit either. I am done on my soap box. Take my words or not. I have watched many state g&f's slowly move towards revenue generation and away from quality game management. After all who pays their salaries.
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Although I'm an Idaho native, I no longer live there. As such, I pay the premium rate to hunt there.

My point is, you said it's a shame because the bull could be bigger, yet you chose to shoot it. If people shoot small bulls, they won't grow up to be bigger bulls. Unfortunately, that has become an expectation of controlled hunts is they will have 400" bulls. If you cut tags back to the extent 400" bulls are available, you are reducing opportunity greatly with no guarantee there will be sufficient recruitment of the age class you are seeking. Nor is there any guarantee you would find the age class in abundance.

It sounds like reality didn't meet your expectations. Happens to all of us. Controlled hunts mean different things to different people. IMO, throttling back permits to provide an abundant supply of 7-9 year old bulls comes at much too high of an opportunity cost to justify it.

Thank you for your service, and congratulations on your bull.
 
jeffnvegas said:
That's not the point and you know it. If you don't want people on your land that abuts public you should have the decency to post it NO TRESPASSING OR HUNTING. You don't leave your house or your car unlocked do you? What are fences for? Used to be you were at least able to access roads that passed through private to get to public. Now you can't even do that. I encountered many locked gates. Granted there are criminals out there that shoot beef cows and litter and disrespect property but then there are burglars and car thieves too. Locks and signs are to keep honest people honest. Are you going to require now that EVERYONE be required to purchase OnX so they know where public meets private. Sportsman and ranchers have worked together for years to preserve public land usage and protect public rights and access. Cows don't read signs and ranchers don't prevent their livestock from grazing public land. Seems to me access and hunting ALL land is good for both and this is just another govt ploy to pit sportsman and ranchers against one another because divided we are easier to control. When the govt really wants to control the woodlands both public and private they will figure out a way to make fuel so expensive NO ONE will have access and we will all be herded into urban zones. Watch and see....
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My opinion is that you have an obligation to know where you are and that you have the legal right to be there. If you’re not willing to do those two things, maybe you’re shouldn’t be in the woods. People did that long before OnX came about using old fashioned maps.
 
After getting caught up on all the posts I wanted to weigh in on a couple points.First-Jeff congrats on a very solid bull. Second my wife drew a primo rifle bull tag here in ID a couple years ago in a unit I know fairly well, draw odds under 3 %. Early weather hit, and the ranchers decided to move cattle out of the higher country during the whole hunt. Saw a handful of smaller bulls she passed on. It was frustrating, but man that's elk hunting.

I will also say as others who know those units will echo- the owyhee elk hunts are far from a sure thing. I get you frustration with the burn and private property, but that's how it plays out sometimes- I would bet almost everyone on here could point to a similar challenge on a what should have been a premium hunt, it's all how you respond to adversity- and you harvested a solid bull!!
 
174c873256b83c32a892c1ff9c6c0186.png


Thanks to Fishing4Sanity for reminding me of this
 
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OK, I caught up with the posts and saw a couple of things. 65 year old disabled Vet. Thank you, and it means you aren't a young whippersnapper bitching about how his "dream hunt" didn't live up to his expectations. But I have to say, from all I can gather, you are an OLD guy bitching about how his "dream hunt" didn't live up to his expectations. And no offense meant on the old part, I'm sure you can see what I mean here. I've been elk hunting twice and never fired a shot. I would LOVE to go ANYWHERE just to try it again. Seeing pictures of what folks have taken makes it even harder to not plan another hunt. But I have things to do that keep me from going again in the near future it seems. YOU, however, got that "PRIMO TAG" that spawned a promise of giant bulls in an area that seems like it had everything going for it. Good for you, someone has to draw those tags! But then when something happened that you didn't care for here comes the whining and complaining. Uh, gee. You never heard of those things in other areas? Blame it on bad management? Be lucky they're managing in the first place! As far as the "controlled burn" that's just it. Controlled. Did it get away a little? Maybe. But think about a lightning strike that lit the whole place up and burned EVERYTHING. Still going to complain? That's happened to lots of folks. I know. My last hunt had people from a different unit come to where I was because theirs had a fire.

You killed a bull. A pretty darn NICE bull. That should have taken the sting out of your story. But then you doubled down and said how it would have been so much bigger in later years. What? Damn, dude! Pick one! You proceeded to twist it around into a management issue and private property thing, yet the rules are in place for everyone. New rules this year? Same for everyone. Learn them. Don't like them? Make a complaint to the game department. Want to have access to the private property so you can hunt over there? Go get permission LIKE EVERYONE ELSE! Just because there isn't a sign? Damn, how about a little common respect for the landowner and ask the guy himself? The worst he can do is say no. Nothing lost but a bit of your time. Times have changed. You just can't go wherever you want any more just because you don't see a sign telling you to keep out. You should know that at your age. Just because you think you SHOULD be able to doesn't make it right. Access is not always going to be open like the good old days. Sounds like you need to accept that fact and move on, admire the great bull you got, and enjoy the memories of the hunt that got you that bull. Some of us don't have that.

Rant over. Carry on.
 
@jeffnvegas I'm sorry the hunt didn't live up to your expectations. I find that my expectations are typically much higher than reality. For example, last year I took a trip into the Wyoming wilderness with my dad (resident) and brother. It was a rifle hunt in the middle of the rut and it was going to be epic. We went 25 miles in with a pack string and were cocked, locked, and ready to rock. Then it got hot, and hotter, and even hotter. The bulls were quiet and we started worrying about filling one tag, let alone all three like we were expecting. It definitely didn't turn out like we expected, but we made the most of it and I treasure that time with my dad and brother greatly.

Congrats on a great bull and I hope you can see the silver lining so you can enjoy those memories rather than resent them.
 
OwyheeHuntr said:
After getting caught up on all the posts I wanted to weigh in on a couple points.First-Jeff congrats on a very solid bull. Second my wife drew a primo rifle bull tag here in ID a couple years ago in a unit I know fairly well, draw odds under 3 %. Early weather hit, and the ranchers decided to move cattle out of the higher country during the whole hunt. Saw a handful of smaller bulls she passed on. It was frustrating, but man that's elk hunting.

I will also say as others who know those units will echo- the owyhee elk hunts are far from a sure thing. I get you frustration with the burn and private property, but that's how it plays out sometimes- I would bet almost everyone on here could point to a similar challenge on a what should have been a premium hunt, it's all how you respond to adversity- and you harvested a solid bull!!
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Thanx for the congrats. Appreciate some positive feedback. I guess some people think with a premium tag its all a slam dunk but everyone knows there are no guarantees. It just gets frustrating when as expensive a proposition as it is for an out of stater that having access issues as well as prescribed burns and no bulging bulls as assured by all, in addition to minimal feedback from locals. After 3 weeks of seeing only solo bulls and few cows to boot anyone would have doubts as to the validity of the claims for this once in a lifetime tag. Neverless I am grateful for my success. Just hope it gets better for others down the road.
 
Mtnhuntr said:
@jeffnvegas I'm sorry the hunt didn't live up to your expectations. I find that my expectations are typically much higher than reality. For example, last year I took a trip into the Wyoming wilderness with my dad (resident) and brother. It was a rifle hunt in the middle of the rut and it was going to be epic. We went 25 miles in with a pack string and were cocked, locked, and ready to rock. Then it got hot, and hotter, and even hotter. The bulls were quiet and we started worrying about filling one tag, let alone all three like we were expecting. It definitely didn't turn out like we expected, but we made the most of it and I treasure that time with my dad and brother greatly.

Congrats on a great bull and I hope you can see the silver lining so you can enjoy those memories rather than resent them.
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No regrets except the for the guys still out there who are experiencing the same frustration. Hoping best wishes and luck to the hunt of a lifetime dudes who are trying to get a shot for this year's recipient and all the bow hunters with their buglers who are being unanswered. Gotta be exceptionally tough on them. God bless em all!!
 
Dave N said:
OK, I caught up with the posts and saw a couple of things. 65 year old disabled Vet. Thank you, and it means you aren't a young whippersnapper bitching about how his "dream hunt" didn't live up to his expectations. But I have to say, from all I can gather, you are an OLD guy bitching about how his "dream hunt" didn't live up to his expectations. And no offense meant on the old part, I'm sure you can see what I mean here. I've been elk hunting twice and never fired a shot. I would LOVE to go ANYWHERE just to try it again. Seeing pictures of what folks have taken makes it even harder to not plan another hunt. But I have things to do that keep me from going again in the near future it seems. YOU, however, got that "PRIMO TAG" that spawned a promise of giant bulls in an area that seems like it had everything going for it. Good for you, someone has to draw those tags! But then when something happened that you didn't care for here comes the whining and complaining. Uh, gee. You never heard of those things in other areas? Blame it on bad management? Be lucky they're managing in the first place! As far as the "controlled burn" that's just it. Controlled. Did it get away a little? Maybe. But think about a lightning strike that lit the whole place up and burned EVERYTHING. Still going to complain? That's happened to lots of folks. I know. My last hunt had people from a different unit come to where I was because theirs had a fire.

You killed a bull. A pretty darn NICE bull. That should have taken the sting out of your story. But then you doubled down and said how it would have been so much bigger in later years. What? Damn, dude! Pick one! You proceeded to twist it around into a management issue and private property thing, yet the rules are in place for everyone. New rules this year? Same for everyone. Learn them. Don't like them? Make a complaint to the game department. Want to have access to the private property so you can hunt over there? Go get permission LIKE EVERYONE ELSE! Just because there isn't a sign? Damn, how about a little common respect for the landowner and ask the guy himself? The worst he can do is say no. Nothing lost but a bit of your time. Times have changed. You just can't go wherever you want any more just because you don't see a sign telling you to keep out. You should know that at your age. Just because you think you SHOULD be able to doesn't make it right. Access is not always going to be open like the good old days. Sounds like you need to accept that fact and move on, admire the great bull you got, and enjoy the memories of the hunt that got you that bull. Some of us don't have that.

Rant over. Carry on.
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Guess you didn't read all of what I had to say. Whose whining now? I made all the attempts to get permission. I hope you get the chance to be two blocked over and over due to things out of your control. We all go through the pain cause we love hunting. My diatribe was more to save you and/or others similar grief and make folks aware of the issues encountered. Biologists often use statistics to determine numbers and use flyovers to spot herds and extrapolate from there. All estimates. Feet on the ground out in the bush are a much more accurate way to determine actual numbers which of course is the game to generate tag quotas and revenue expectations. We are all greatful there are folks out there who sacrifice the high paying jobs to work Fish and Game and the time and money constraints they are forced to work under. Chill out though. You are in for a whole lot more frustration and disappointment. I have earned the right to complain as well as lots of other folks here. I am hunting mule deer this year after not drawing a tag for 12 years. 10 of which were for an archery tag. Finally decided to try for rifle the last 2 yrs and yoohoo I drew.
There are plenty of other factors involved in this game of hunting here in the West you will find out. I have bonus points in 9 states for multiple species and have been fortunate in my endeavors more than not. Had a few good and bad outfitter experiences and solo hunts over the years and now that I am retired and on a fixed income and I am forced to make more frugal choices in order to continue to do what I love the most. I am disabled and retired and have not used that ace in the hole or for a cheaper license or chance at a tag because I have always felt there were more out there more deserving for their sacrifice than me. I have all my limbs and no PTSD so those priveledges should go to them first and foremost.
Sacrifice some more before you decide to chastise this old bird ace. I earned my rights to have an opinion. Just because you applied and fell short a couple of times doesn't earn you the right to call me out.
Like Toby Keith so aptly wrote " I ain't as good now as I once was but am as good once as I ever was"!!!!
 
RockinU said:
I don't particularly care what method you use to discern the boundary, but it is without question your responsibility to know where you are, and who owns it...
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So landowners bare no responsibility for establishing their boundaries?? Since when. Especially where it is checkerboarded between BLM State and /or federal. In most places it is law to post it if you want to keep people off or out and most states it is law for access through gates to access public lands. Whether with signs or spray paint. What country do you live in?
 
This post keeps getting more entertaining. You gotta know where you are. That’s the hunters responsibility imo. Congrats on getting a bull and thank you for your service!!
 
jeffnvegas said:
Guess you didn't read all of what I had to say. Whose whining now? I made all the attempts to get permission. I hope you get the chance to be two blocked over and over due to things out of your control. We all go through the pain cause we love hunting. My diatribe was more to save you and/or others similar grief and make folks aware of the issues encountered. Biologists often use statistics to determine numbers and use flyovers to spot herds and extrapolate from there. All estimates. Feet on the ground out in the bush are a much more accurate way to determine actual numbers which of course is the game to generate tag quotas and revenue expectations. We are all greatful there are folks out there who sacrifice the high paying jobs to work Fish and Game and the time and money constraints they are forced to work under. Chill out though. You are in for a whole lot more frustration and disappointment. I have earned the right to complain as well as lots of other folks here. I am hunting mule deer this year after not drawing a tag for 12 years. 10 of which were for an archery tag. Finally decided to try for rifle the last 2 yrs and yoohoo I drew.
There are plenty of other factors involved in this game of hunting here in the West you will find out. I have bonus points in 9 states for multiple species and have been fortunate in my endeavors more than not. Had a few good and bad outfitter experiences and solo hunts over the years and now that I am retired and on a fixed income and I am forced to make more frugal choices in order to continue to do what I love the most. I am disabled and retired and have not used that ace in the hole or for a cheaper license or chance at a tag because I have always felt there were more out there more deserving for their sacrifice than me. I have all my limbs and no PTSD so those priveledges should go to them first and foremost.
Sacrifice some more before you decide to chastise this old bird ace. I earned my rights to have an opinion. Just because you applied and fell short a couple of times doesn't earn you the right to call me out.
Like Toby Keith so aptly wrote " I ain't as good now as I once was but am as good once as I ever was"!!!!
Click to expand...

I just read whining and whining from you. Let the little bulls live next time and hunt somewhere without private or a very well publicized vegetation project.

Haha Eastman application fail.
 
jeffnvegas said:
So landowners bare no responsibility for establishing their boundaries?? Since when. Especially where it is checkerboarded between BLM State and /or federal. In most places it is law to post it if you want to keep people off or out and most states it is law for access through gates to access public lands. Whether with signs or spray paint. What country do you live in?
Click to expand...

No
 
I'd like to echo the congrats on your bull, its a doozy! I would be incredibly grateful if I were to ever successfully take a beauty like that.
Not to derail this lively discussion but....regarding the positing of private boundaries, this is an interesting and muddy topic that I have always avoided coming within a 10 foot pole of by being a bit OCD about map study, either on paper or onX. I would have guessed that the law would simply read that it is the individual's responsibility to know where they are at all times, but this article included an interesting quote:

"Sportsmen and women should know if the land is private if the property is associated with a residence or business, is cultivated, is fenced or enclosed, or unfenced and uncultivated but is posted with "no trespassing" signs."

idahonews.com

Idaho F&G: Know the trespassing laws when hunting and fishing

The Idaho Department of Fish and Game (IDFG) wants Idaho fishers and hunters to remember one thing: you need permission to be on private lands. Last year Idaho's trespassing laws changed to include permission to hunt and fish on private property. "No person shall enter or remain on private land...
idahonews.com idahonews.com
 
jeffnvegas said:
Guess you didn't read all of what I had to say. Whose whining now? I made all the attempts to get permission. I hope you get the chance to be two blocked over and over due to things out of your control. We all go through the pain cause we love hunting. My diatribe was more to save you and/or others similar grief and make folks aware of the issues encountered. Biologists often use statistics to determine numbers and use flyovers to spot herds and extrapolate from there. All estimates. Feet on the ground out in the bush are a much more accurate way to determine actual numbers which of course is the game to generate tag quotas and revenue expectations. We are all greatful there are folks out there who sacrifice the high paying jobs to work Fish and Game and the time and money constraints they are forced to work under. Chill out though. You are in for a whole lot more frustration and disappointment. I have earned the right to complain as well as lots of other folks here. I am hunting mule deer this year after not drawing a tag for 12 years. 10 of which were for an archery tag. Finally decided to try for rifle the last 2 yrs and yoohoo I drew.
There are plenty of other factors involved in this game of hunting here in the West you will find out. I have bonus points in 9 states for multiple species and have been fortunate in my endeavors more than not. Had a few good and bad outfitter experiences and solo hunts over the years and now that I am retired and on a fixed income and I am forced to make more frugal choices in order to continue to do what I love the most. I am disabled and retired and have not used that ace in the hole or for a cheaper license or chance at a tag because I have always felt there were more out there more deserving for their sacrifice than me. I have all my limbs and no PTSD so those priveledges should go to them first and foremost.
Sacrifice some more before you decide to chastise this old bird ace. I earned my rights to have an opinion. Just because you applied and fell short a couple of times doesn't earn you the right to call me out.
Like Toby Keith so aptly wrote " I ain't as good now as I once was but am as good once as I ever was"!!!!
Click to expand...
Yeah, I read it. Seems like you're trying to turn your bitch session around and flip it into a "helpful" type of thread. Not buying it. Go back and read your first posts as well as the other thread where you complained about the controlled burn. Your attempts at contacting landowners for permission were phone calls that weren't returned. Well, DUH! Guys are busy and don't need to be bothered by someone they don't know calling them out of the blue. How many actual doors did you knock on? I would say none. In the long run YOU are the one responsible for knowing if you are on public or private land. If that requires you to have an OnX or whatever, so be it. Get one! Don't put it all on the guy that didn't have a sign pointing the way for you.

I never complained about my hunts. Just stated they were unsuccessful. Just like MANY others. If we all killed something every time we went out it wouldn't quite be the same. THAT'S WHY IT'S CALLED HUNTING!!!!!!!!! Buh-bye.
 
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