Dumb Question - Ackley Improved Dies

[Brian in Montana]

Is it possible to load ammo for a standard chambering using the seating die of the corresponding Ackley Improved version?

OK, that was a little confusing. For example, can one use a 30-06 AI die to load 30-06 Springfield? Would only want to do this to fire-form brass without having to buy 2 die sets.

 

[Mtnhunter1]

Yes. You can use a AI die to seat the bullets, no problem.

Have you tried the Cream-O-Wheat method? May save you components and it works very well.

 

[brockel]

Yep no problem seating bullets with the ackley die. I use a standard die for seating my 223 ackley

 

[1_pointer]

Yep no problem seating bullets with the ackley die. I use a standard die for seating my 223 ackley

That's a good thing to know! I figured the shoulder would hit before the seater. Now I just need to track down a 223AI body and/or neck die!

 

[Ben Lamb]

Yep no problem seating bullets with the ackley die. I use a standard die for seating my 223 ackley

Same for my 7mm Mauser AI.

I just use a standard 7mm neck sizer for sizing too. I've never felt the need to purchase an AI sizer or seater.

 

[brockel]

That's a good thing to know! I figured the shoulder would hit before the seater. Now I just need to track down a 223AI body and/or neck die!

I run the cheap Lee FL sizer for like $18. Works just fine for me

 

[Don Fischer]

I don't get this. If you load for the 30-06, didn't your dies come with a seating die? Then if all you want to do is make your case fit your chamber, pretty simple by setting up the sizing die to partial size. Once the sizing is done the standard seating die should not change the case at all.

 

[Brian in Montana]

I don't get this. If you load for the 30-06, didn't your dies come with a seating die? Then if all you want to do is make your case fit your chamber, pretty simple by setting up the sizing die to partial size. Once the sizing is done the standard seating die should not change the case at all.

I don't have a 30-06 Springfield, but I'm building a 30-06 AI. I have about 140 rounds of Remington factory ammo I'm just gonna to shoot for the brass, but I also have another 150 or so once-fired -06 Springfield brass I bought from a friend. I'll need to fire form that, but don't really want to buy a different die just for that. I'm glad to hear the consensus is that the AI seater die can be used to load the Springfield brass.

Thanks, guys.

 

[Ben Lamb]

I don't have a 30-06 Springfield, but I'm building a 30-06 AI. I have about 140 rounds of Remington factory ammo I'm just gonna to shoot for the brass, but I also have another 150 or so once-fired -06 Springfield brass I bought from a friend. I'll need to fire form that, but don't really want to buy a different die just for that. I'm glad to hear the consensus is that the AI seater die can be used to load the Springfield brass.

Thanks, guys.

I think @jryoung has the formula for cream of wheat as a fire-forming media, as opposed to using mid-range loads. Key for fire forming is getting enough pressure to form the case correctly. W/ a pill, that's a mid-range load. Not sure about the COW way. Could be a less expensive, and shoulder pounding, way to get fire-formed cases.

 

[Brian in Montana]

What on earth is this "cream of wheat" method?

Can't even imagine. Seriously, use cream of wheat in some way?

 

[Ben Lamb]

What on earth is this "cream of wheat" method?

Can't even imagine. Seriously, use cream of wheat in some way?

Here's an informative video with a soothing British narrator:

 

[antelopedundee]

What on earth is this "cream of wheat" method?

Can't even imagine. Seriously, use cream of wheat in some way?

You can Google it, but it involves using IIRC a small amount of pistol powder and using cream of wheat as a filler. Use a bit of tissue to seal the case mouth. Some say that it's messy. Another option is to fill the case with 20-25 grains of Bullseye and use a large pistol primer. Search this technique over at accurateshooter.com. Seal the case mouth with a bit of tissue to prevent spillage. Point your rifle straight up and fire away. The barrel gets hot. Personally I'm not sure I'd do either one with a good barrel.

I can tell you from personal experience that you won't need that many fire formed cases. Since you already have factory ammo just shoot some of that. I wouldn't mess with fire forming those used cases. Components are hard to come by. Remington .30-06 ammo is [or can be] available here for $19.99 per box. Why mess with handloading just to get fire formed cases at that price?

 

[cahunter805]

What on earth is this "cream of wheat" method?

Can't even imagine. Seriously, use cream of wheat in some way?

I prefer grits!
The cream of wheat method does work and saves components since you don’t use bullets or your rifle powder. I built a box with some foam in it and inserted the barrel into it to catch the cream of wheat and control noise. I formed them all in my garage. I found that the cases were pretty well formed but did grow a little on their first full charge firing in my rifle.
As others have stated you shouldn’t have any issues seating bullets in standard 06 cases with your AI die. Just start the seater stem long and sneak up on your OAL.

 

[Durango Mike]

I don't have a 30-06 Springfield, but I'm building a 30-06 AI. I have about 140 rounds of Remington factory ammo I'm just gonna to shoot for the brass, but I also have another 150 or so once-fired -06 Springfield brass I bought from a friend. I'll need to fire form that, but don't really want to buy a different die just for that. I'm glad to hear the consensus is that the AI seater die can be used to load the Springfield brass.

Thanks, guys.

be aware that your once fired from different rifles will need full length resizing to deal with different chambers for Ackley which has straighter walls than 06 brass. I have 5 AI chambers that I load for and have learned to fire form new brass only as I have had a few instances where case was almost impossible to chamber even after full length, for 556 I use small base die resizing to go to Wylde chambers and I just don't mess with it for my Ackley, usually minimal case stretch and just neck size. The smallest improvement in Ackley conversions has been the 30-06 and 35 Whelan cases, the largest have been with the 556 as I am getting 3,600 fps with 50 grain Blitz bullets.

 

[std7mag]

Wait....
Your gonna form 290 pieces of brass to AI?
I think i would just do 50 myself. And even that is usually more than plenty for me.

I use standard loading to fireform. Middle of the road charge of IMR4350 should do you just fine.
It also helps with some valuable trigger time.

 

[Brian in Montana]

I still haven't gotten the barrel yet, it may be a little while before everything is put together. But yes, I usually try to keep around 200 or so pieces of brass of the same headstamp in rotation, fired the same amount of times.

I realize now that I said 150 once-fired casings. I meant 50; not sure how that 1 got in there.

 

[brockel]

I’ve got a block of trap wax. When I was fireforming Id put some pistol powder in case. Top off with cream of wheat. Then jam case mouth into block of wax to create plug. No worries of tipping gun and filling it with powder

 

[BAKPAKR]

Same for my 7mm Mauser AI.

I just use a standard 7mm neck sizer for sizing too. I've never felt the need to purchase an AI sizer or seater.

I think there should be some sort of law against AIing a 7mm Mauser.

 

[Ben Lamb]

I think there should be some sort of law against AIing a 7mm Mauser.

140 grain TTSX at 3050 says otherwise.

 

[ImBillT]

I’ve used the cream of wheat method. I just started light and worked up till they were forming properly. I do still prefer a real bullet if I have some junk bullets I don’t mind wasting, and better yet a fireforming barrel so that I’m not burning barrel life forming brass. The cream of wheat method is quite useful for saving components and barrel life.

Yes you can seat with your AI seater. You may or may not see poor accuracy while fireforming. Many competitive shooters shoot groups just as good during fireforming as they do after BUT a custom reamer for a benchrest shooter has a tighter back end than a factory chamber, and a tight neck as well. If you’re turning your brass to a total neck clearance of .001”(.0005” per side) and the back end is also tight, and you’re seating with a custom die made from your chamber reamer, then your ammo has very little runout, and it fits your chamber with excellent alignment even though the body is going to be blown out. I’ve had standard AI reamers give me very poor accuracy during fireforming only to yeild excellent accuracy after the fact. Using the AI seater to seat into unformed brass leave A CHANCE at more runout in your loaded ammo than you’ll have once it’s formed as the die will not center the unformed brass as well as it will the formed brass due to the sloppy fit. A 30-06 has plenty of neck, if you size them first, and seat the bullet deep enough to have plenty of bearing surface in the case, you probably won’t have much runout. If you seat them long enough to hit the lands well before the bolt is closed and your neck tension isn’t too high, the lands will seat the bullet squarely and your runout won’t really matter much. That won’t fix the sloppy fit in the chamber. Expect improved accuracy once it’s formed.

I’m guessing that Ben Lamb is using a universal neck sizer and seater. I guess that works. He MAY be leaving some accuracy on the table since both can contribute to excess runout of the loaded ammo. I would also think that closing the bolt would get a little tough after a few reloads if he isn’t able to size the body and bump the shoulder. IF the neck sizer doesn’t cause any excess runout, then his ammo will certainly fit his chamber well. Neck sizing can make it tough to close a bolt, but done right, it makes the brass last a long time and it takes a good match of your chamber and sizing dies to get the same accuracy while sizing the whole case.

IF I had dies for the standard cartridge AND I had a tight chamber, I would seat with the dies for the standard cartridge so that I had the best loaded ammo I could, and I would do my seating depth testing (with the bullet that I planned to use) while fireforming. If I did not have a tight chamber, or already have standard dies, I would just use the AI dies to seat the cheapest bullets I had on hand.