Discuss Master Hunter programs here....

[BigHornRam]

Perhaps the program would be more acceptable if each Master Hunter was referred to several recent Hunter Education graduates and their parents to mentor new hunters and introduce them to hunting through the private land access available through the program. Then the stigma of MH personal privilege would be lessened.

That's a good idea SA. Pay it forward. Many of the folks involved with this program are also involved with youth programs like the annual Teller Youth event. Many mentored youth hunts are already part of the program.

Youth Programs - Montana Wild Sheep Foundation

These events teach youth about the North American Model of Wildlife Conservation, ethical hunting, and ethical trapping. Each year Montana WSF is reaches over 500 area youth to teach them about the issues facing our wild sheep.

montanawsf.org

 

[onpoint]

Randy,
I'll echo JLS, seeing as how a shitload, in this thread of the "hammering over my morning coffee" was mine.
When our friend, shoulder seasons, was taking off - I told the at the time MFWP region 3 supervisor that I thought our (I WORKED THERE) policy was a joke. Wasn't exactly great stance to take as a low level grunt.
It had consequences - real and potential. Like my livelihood and low paid public service career. I didn't care. I worked for you, Randy. And you Harley - post a meme. And Randy11. And greenhorn. And StraightArrow's grandkids.
Hell, Randy, you and I sat together at those stupid F$%#ing gun shows in futility trying to get our "like minded individuals" to join HFGA.
Look at all my ad nauseum posts here about "get involved, dammit".
SO, yeah - I've stuck my neck out.
And, hey, in the world of "losing one's password", I still stick my neck out. Mosta' what I say on here goes over like a fart in a punchbowl.
Like you once replied to a past thread - said what needs to be said.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

How long before Master Hunters are lobbying for MH only seasons to solve the state’s elk population “problem”.

I also have that concern, but juxtaposed to that is the reality that there are hunts that should be open to the public but that your average hunter is not qualified for... I'm not sure what the perfect solution is, but I can see master hunter programs being a good one.

I can see it making sense for some draw hunts, to be master hunter only... or something like that.

 

[Deleted member 20812]

I also have that concern, but juxtaposed to that is the reality that there are hunts that should be open to the public but that your average hunter is not qualified for... I'm not sure what the perfect solution is, but I can see master hunter programs being a good one.

I can see it making sense for some draw hunts, to be master hunter only... or something like that.

That’s funny shit.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

I’m not hammering anyone Randy. I just want people to be damned aware of the future we are potentially creating. IMO we’re creating a monster in the name of mainstreaming hunting to further recruitment.

And yeah, I’ve stuck my neck out......

Maybe it doesn’t count because I’m not sponsored by <insert business here>?

Sounds like your problem is with capitalism

Honestly I think the reticence you, @Randy11, and I share pretty common with anything going mainstream.

 

[tjones]

I also have that concern, but juxtaposed to that is the reality that there are hunts that should be open to the public but that your average hunter is not qualified for... I'm not sure what the perfect solution is, but I can see master hunter programs being a good one.

I can see it making sense for some draw hunts, to be master hunter only... or something like that.

Who says a hunter coming out of the MH program is any better or more accomplished of a hunter then the average hunter? I know some pretty damn good average hunter/woodsman.

 

[Deleted member 20812]

Sounds like your problem is with capitalism

Honestly I think the reticence you, @Randy11, and I share pretty common with anything going mainstream.

I have no problem with capitalism. I absolutely hate the commercialization of wildlife.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

Who says a hunter coming out of the MH program is any better or more accomplished of a hunter then the average hunter? I know some pretty damn good average hunter/woodsman.

Agreed, but it's the law of averages. How do you know what your getting.

Tangentially related, when I was planning my AK trip this year I got in contact with a transporter and explained to him what I wanted to do... took a bit to convince him I wasn't going to get myself killed, or into a pickle. He told me after the hunt, he would probably only let 1 in 50 hunters do what I did.

Are there DIY repair men that are amazing... yep... does that mean we should have formal processes for electricians?

 

[Deleted member 28227]

I have no problem with capitalism. I absolutely hate the commercialization of wildlife.

Why in your mind is this commercialization, I feel like RFW is way way worse?

 

[Deleted member 20812]

Who says a hunter coming out of the MH program is any better or more accomplished of a hunter then the average hunter? I know some pretty damn good average hunter/woodsman.

Cmon Tony, just pony up the cash to show your worthiness to those who deem it so.

 

[Deleted member 20812]

Why in your mind is this commercialization, I feel like RFW is way way worse?

Do you need a definition for pornography?

 

[tjones]

Are there DIY repair men that are amazing... yep... does that mean we should have formal processes for electricians?

Comparing hunting to a trade is-- well,,,silly.

 

[noharleyyet]

*turd in a punchbowl Francis

 

[----]

I also have that concern, but juxtaposed to that is the reality that there are hunts that should be open to the public but that your average hunter is not qualified for... I'm not sure what the perfect solution is, but I can see master hunter programs being a good one.

I can see it making sense for some draw hunts, to be master hunter only... or something like that.

That is a shockingly bad take.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

@JLS and @tjones

Keep'r on the rails.

Seriously though, I can see this getting proposed in CO. I'm interested in thoughtful comments.

Say the master hunter program was more nominal $10 same content, and that it was put on by the state.

This is my thinking.

Essentially 2025 in CO you get your big game brochure in there is a section of hunt codes, in units that are mostly private so front range pronghorn for instance. The state has negotiated with a ton of landowners to get lots of access, the situation is that you have to take the master hunter class to apply for those codes, just as you would hunter's safety or a bow hunter's safety. You could even change the name and call it suburban hunter's safety or private land safety. Is that problematic and if so how?

Western hunting is different, but there are programs in this vein that are already going for whitetails

Government Run

Urban Deer Hunt

Welcome to the City of Cedar Rapids, Iowa

www.cedar-rapids.org

and private

http://acdmt.org/

On the western side as previous posted:

CO has an elk hunt with a mandatory orientation as well as a sheep hunt
AK now requires an orientation for all Kenai moose hunts
MT requires you to pass a black bear identification test, and a Bison orientation
CO requires a mt lion sexing test

There are examples of requiring hunters to gain additional knowledge and competency to do specific hunts.

 

[Big Fin]

Randy,
I'll echo JLS, seeing as how a shitload, in this thread of the "hammering over my morning coffee" was mine.
When our friend, shoulder seasons, was taking off - I told the at the time MFWP region 3 supervisor that I thought our (I WORKED THERE) policy was a joke. Wasn't exactly great stance to take as a low level grunt.
It had consequences - real and potential. Like my livelihood and low paid public service career. I didn't care. I worked for you, Randy. And you Harley - post a meme. And Randy11. And greenhorn. And StraightArrow's grandkids.
Hell, Randy, you and I sat together at those stupid F$%#ing gun shows in futility trying to get our "like minded individuals" to join HFGA.
Look at all my ad nauseum posts here about "get involved, dammit".
SO, yeah - I've stuck my neck out.
And, hey, in the world of "losing one's password", I still stick my neck out. Mosta' what I say on here goes over like a fart in a punchbowl.
Like you once replied to a past thread - said what needs to be said.

Maybe it doesn’t count because I’m not sponsored by <insert business here>?

Obviously I hit a nerve when asking people to give their suggestions of possible solutions to a very complicated problem; access to elk on public land. I wasn't asking people to defend what they have posted here. I was asking for further discussion of what might work.

Evidently my offer to discuss alternatives is not received very well.

 

[onpoint]

You stuck your neck out, it got stomped on a little.
Mine wasn't defense - it was offense. As was your smart ass comment(s).
I replied, read what I just posted on the other thread.
Interesting lack of replies - I do agree.

 

[Deleted member 20812]

Obviously I hit a nerve when asking people to give their suggestions of possible solutions to a very complicated problem; access to elk on public land. I wasn't asking people to defend what they have posted here. I was asking for further discussion of what might work.

Evidently my offer to discuss alternatives is not received very well.

Your comments flat pissed me off. Not every idea is a good one, and even the most well intended ideas come with unintended consequences. Some of mine included.

I’ve repeatedly stated I see the pluses in this type of program, but the potential pitfalls are huge. The potential impacts are public lands resources are huge. If that’s “hammering” then so be it. Your pig, your farm.

Implications of cheap seat hammering and not sticking one’s neck out were bush league.

 

[TOGIE]

Essentially 2025 in CO you get your big game brochure in there is a section of hunt codes, in units that are mostly private so front range pronghorn for instance. The state has negotiated with a ton of landowners to get lots of access, the situation is that you have to take the master hunter class to apply for those codes, just as you would hunter's safety or a bow hunter's safety. You could even change the name and call it suburban hunter's safety or private land safety. Is that problematic and if so how?

this is where i'm at on this. i fail to see where such a concept is so horrible. the state finding a way for me to access animals on private land? saweet. sounds like more acess to me. isn't that one thing we all want?

i feel if such a program was demonized you'd have to also demonize the leasing of private land in colorado by cpw for it to become a SWA

i get the RFW thing, i do. but at the end of the day it's still increased access to animals that we would otherwise *never* have access to. RFW in it's own right is not the problem. vouchers are the underlying problem - what would the other incentive be to get a ranch into RFW? not rhetorical, i'm sure there are others, there could be hope there.

you can literally take any one thing on planet earth and drive it to a horrifying hypothetical end if you want to. maybe i'm naive

 

[The Hedgehog]

Obviously I hit a nerve when asking people to give their suggestions of possible solutions to a very complicated problem; access to elk on public land.

Don't you mean access to elk on "private" land?

Would be just awesome to see more elk just on public land where you don't have to worry about a whole lot of the other complications, and we all have "access"