Nameless Range
Well-known member
Under the current setup, a lot of Type 2 in Montana is corrupt. Could be easily rectified if all permissions on Type 2 where a reservation is required was overseen by FWP, and should be.
Under the current setup, a lot of Type 2 in Montana is corrupt. Could be easily rectified if all permissions on Type 2 where a reservation is required was overseen by FWP, and should be.
There it is.
Now, where Onpoint is absolutely correct is that the MH program is completely different than HM, BMA's, etc is that the MH program is 100% privately funded & administered.
And that's a major difference.
onpoint
Well-known member
I appreciate your perception....................
But, wrong. In many cases.
While the type 2 BMA's do indeed have issues like you mentioned - which I have experienced myself at a select BMA in Carter Co (sure some will know which one I speak of) - the vast majority of the type 2's I have checked in to were on the up and up. Period. All can bash all they want - check my record of being a critic of my former employer - but most folks I know have mostly good experiences with most BMA type 2's.
Now the BMA "yeah but one time I....." can began.
Your turn.
But, wrong. In many cases.
While the type 2 BMA's do indeed have issues like you mentioned - which I have experienced myself at a select BMA in Carter Co (sure some will know which one I speak of) - the vast majority of the type 2's I have checked in to were on the up and up. Period. All can bash all they want - check my record of being a critic of my former employer - but most folks I know have mostly good experiences with most BMA type 2's.
Now the BMA "yeah but one time I....." can began.
Your turn.
devon deer
Well-known member
Firstly @JLS I will sign up for for a Jagermeister, I quite like that drink
I think you mean the German JagdscheinI'm not sure I can add anything really as we don't have any Public land.
But, as all our available land for hunting is privately owned, and we have the strictest gun control in the world, I can add the following.
The most important education to me was hands on, out in the field, and provided by an older wiser guy than me, a local gamekeeper.
In 1998 a new company was formed and decided they would bring out a basic exam (Deer Stalkers Certificate Level1), mainly theory and classroom based, followed by a field test and shooting exam, completely voluntary, as it is now, for the time being I suspect.
In 1999 I signed up for the weekend course, (as I was a hunting guide I thought why not) to me it was fairly easy, but I did learn a few things, but a lot of fellow hunters on the course thought it would open up doors to them with private landowners, well they got that wrong, even today it doesn't really open any doors.
However, the course attracted the attention of our authorities who issue our firearms licences, basically our police force, and since then some police forces (not all, and also not a condition of our Governments guidance on issuing a firearms licence) insist (wrongly) that new applicants must have completed the course (they basically try it on as they don't really want us to have guns!) but I can see it going that way eventually, there are some real idiots out shooting in the UK, but thankfully they are in the minority.
Then, they decided why not bring out a practical based certificate DSC Level 2, basically you are 'witnessed' stalking and culling a deer on 3 separate occasions.
This is where I get a little annoyed for my fellow hunter, I did the L2 for the same reason previously stated, I didn't do it prove anything to anyone, but in the UK we have a publicly owned area known as the Forestry Commission, I have no interest in hunting it, but there is a condition of hunting it, you must have a L2 certificate, which to some can be financially out of their means, see where this is all going?
Its when the authorities get involved that it can have implications for hunters, I'm not saying that is where the Master hunter course would go, after all you have the 2nd amendment, we don't!
What I will say is, a new hunter in the UK, who doesn't have access to an experienced guy like I did it will help them and educate them, but it has it's limitations, however if it means one less idiot running around blasting at deer willy nilly in the UK then it's fine with me.
Sorry this was a bit long winded!
Cheers
Richard
D
Deleted member 20812
Guest
Firstly @JLS I will sign up for for a Jagermeister, I quite like that drink
I told you I wasn't very smart.
onpoint
Well-known member
Reflecting on this all - it's really all about the industry, isn't it.
Even the apparently well-intentioned stuff.
It'll getcha notoriety, atta boys, "respect", sometimes even stuff/$$/access/voice/etc.
Randy11 - "The class more or less represents everything I hate about what hunting has become in Montana". For me as does some other stuff.....
JLS - "I know @onpoint shares my skepticism. Maybe we are just a couple of jaded old bastards ready to be put out to pasture. However, sometimes there is a very fine line between jaded cynicism and realism".
Yup, jaded old bastard. Comes from some amount of experience - "realism".
The other realistic thing? Knowing you've at times contributed to what you don't care for. And wishing you were oblivious to your own culpability. As the luckier of us get/choose to be.
Wrapping public land elk burger tonight. My wife, a master hunter in her own right, did well this year.....
Optimists, have at it.
Harley, post a meme...............................................................................
Even the apparently well-intentioned stuff.
It'll getcha notoriety, atta boys, "respect", sometimes even stuff/$$/access/voice/etc.
Randy11 - "The class more or less represents everything I hate about what hunting has become in Montana". For me as does some other stuff.....
JLS - "I know @onpoint shares my skepticism. Maybe we are just a couple of jaded old bastards ready to be put out to pasture. However, sometimes there is a very fine line between jaded cynicism and realism".
Yup, jaded old bastard. Comes from some amount of experience - "realism".
The other realistic thing? Knowing you've at times contributed to what you don't care for. And wishing you were oblivious to your own culpability. As the luckier of us get/choose to be.
Wrapping public land elk burger tonight. My wife, a master hunter in her own right, did well this year.....
Optimists, have at it.
Harley, post a meme...............................................................................
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My point was that your perception of this program isn't much different than the perception of Type 2 BMA's, or any less than wide-open access program out there. Restriction = elitism.
And again, the Master Hunter program is a private enterprise. Your egalitarian option is to not participate in it, and hunt the tens of millions of acres opened through public ownership, or public/private partnerships. One effort does not negate the other, nor does it lead to a loss of the public estate.
The Hedgehog
Well-known member
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- Dec 19, 2000
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- 11,679
For $345 and some proper training you could make that title official. Mr. and Mrs. Master Hunter and Huntress.
D
Deleted member 20812
Guest
It certainly is, isn't it?
D
Deleted member 20812
Guest
When you have to wear your MTMaster Hunter flat brim in order to hunt the APR, we’ll revisit this. I hope I’m wrong but I really fear the unintended consequences.
You’re an Avengers guy, Ultron was a great idea until he wasn’t.
The Hedgehog
Well-known member
- Joined
- Dec 19, 2000
- Messages
- 11,679
My kids had to recently educate me on what the definition of pronoun was, not in the sense of the English language, but to how one chooses to be identified...
Changing times.
What makes you think I was against Ultron? Dude had legit points, and while not as arbitrary or benevolent as Thanos, he was on the right path.
APR would be well within their rights to move over to that system, as landowners. I may not agree with that, but it's their fee title land to manage as they see fit. I support private property rights, even when it impacts my recreation.
Intellectual consistency is a wicked virtue to have.
D
Deleted member 20812
Guest
Yes, they would. Will you feel the same when there are Master Hunter only hunts on public land? I’ve seen it happen. That’s why I’m suggesting an eyes wide open approach instead of embracing it likes it’s poppies and primroses. Shit like this is hard to undo and it makes me about as comfortable as drinking my coffee while I’m looking at a grizzly ten feet away.
Nope. THen it's a public program that steals from the average hunter to make participants feel special. So long as this is a private deal, it's fine.
A man has to know his line and when to draw it. TOtally with you on that. If this gets morphed into ranching for wildlife, I'll be in the front row with a tiki torch & penny loafers, leading the charge.
D
Deleted member 20812
Guest
If this morphs into RFW, you're going to need the Infinity Stones bruh.
rtraverdavis
Well-known member
What’s that about?
rtraverdavis
Well-known member
This has been an interesting thread to read. It’s promoted me to do some reading about Oregon’s Master Hunter program, and as far as I can tell the only tangible perks (besides the lordly title) is that Master Hunters in Oregon are allowed to apply for emergency depredation hunts on private, while the rest of us cannot. I didn’t read too deeply into it, so it may be more than that.
At first glance a course like this seems pretty cool, but I can see how easily it might create an us and them situation. All this sort of stuff is new to me and I appreciate the perspectives all you guys bring to the table.
At first glance a course like this seems pretty cool, but I can see how easily it might create an us and them situation. All this sort of stuff is new to me and I appreciate the perspectives all you guys bring to the table.
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