Death and Taxes

[rwc101]

Question for the young turks here. Have any of you made payroll before? How many employees? How many years? Thanks in advance.

Was doing payroll for my parents' business at 14. Did it through college. 10-14 employees at a time. Your welcome.

 

[SAJ-99]

Really love it when the Government tells us we don't really need all the money we earn.

A politician running for office has said that? Ever? Really? I think you have been told that so much it is just part of your DNA.

Exactly... to your point, and I think Civilian employees are what is being discussed

And it doesn't even include contractors, which to be more expensive. I think people just disregard what the jobs are. They want the water to run and they want the fire department to show or the cop come when called. They want Social security checks to clear and to sign up for Medicare the exact day they become eligible but they don't want to actually PAY for any of that. The worst part is that for 80years we haven't had to pay for it. We just throw it on the credit card. The original question was "How do my grandkids pay for all this money we are plowing in Ukraine". Screaming about a excess spending doesn't solve the problem. I tend to believe politicians don't want to solve anything because it puts them out of a job.

 

[Irrelevant]

Yes to all of those things.

Don't know that I need more money to improve anything in my life. To me that's not the point. Really love it when the Government tells us we don't really need all the money we earn. Its particularly interesting when a completely random person, that I have never met tells me I don't really need all the money I earn.

You have what I consider an odd take on taxes. For me, I consider the percentage of money that I earn that is given to the Government and what it is then used on to help solve all these real problems you say exist, to be of the highest importance. Like I said we can agree to disagree.

BTW, I pay a high percentage in tax. Don't mind it at all. Consider it a responsibility of being a contributing member of society. I do get tired of the endless cries from one political party in particular that it's just not enough. If I wasn't so GD greedy and just give up a more of my money then we could finally fix the real problems. If I actually felt a lack of Government revenue was the real problem then I would be happy to spare some more pocket change to fix it. Its not a funding issue, on that I am positive.

First off, random? Com'on, you could probably have guessed which of the dozen or so members might have a counter perspective, and if I didn't make that list then I'm not trying hard enough.

I don't think my take on taxes is odd at all, I think it's a healthy way to look at being a productive member of society in the greatest country on the planet during the cushiest time humans have ever existed. I would never espouse that our government is fixing anything with the money we send to it, but it's trying, and it's sorta working in some aspects. I mean are we not still the greatest? For all the doom and gloom and the other side is ruining the country, and taxes are breaking me, if only things would work differently.... the end results is still the same, we're the most privileged people on the planet, with the best gov't, and best finances. I think it's really easy to point out flaws but really hard to provide better results. Especially when every topic is a heated us vs them topic. If we toned down our rhetoric, toned down our animosity to small issues, we might keep this ship afloat and keep enjoying our cushy existence. But if we keep making every issue some huge tragedy then we run the risk of unnecessarily rocking the boat to the point where we cap size or miss seeing the giant iceberg ahead.

Nobody enjoys paying taxes, but it's the give part for the take that is America and American freedom.

I would also argue that you couldn't form a private corp to handle all the same tasks and roles as our government does and have it run any better. The larger it gets the harder it is to run.

Another way I've looked at it is you either have wastage/inefficiency on the public side, or you have profits on the private side. Either way you're paying more than you have to as a baseline consumer. If our corp, which isn't all that large, but does surpass the previous 10 mil revenue threshold, didn't try to "profit" (i.e. bonuses and stock dividends) and just paid salaries, we could charge at least 40% less for our services... but we're greedy.

 

[Deleted member 18333]

A politician running for office has said that? Ever? Really? I think you have been told that so much it is just part of your DNA.

I think these folks might be politicians that have run for office a time or two.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/09/19/politics/democrats-taxes-rich-explainer

 

[Deleted member 18333]

First off, random? Com'on, you could probably have guessed which of the dozen or so members might have a counter perspective, and if I didn't make that list then I'm not trying hard enough.

Random in the sense that we don't know each other from Adam. I agree you are very consistent.

I don't think my take on taxes is odd at all, I think it's a healthy way to look at being a productive member of society in the greatest country on the planet during the cushiest time humans have ever existed. I would never espouse that our government is fixing anything with the money we send to it, but it's trying, and it's sorta working in some aspects. I mean are we not still the greatest? For all the doom and gloom and the other side is ruining the country, and taxes are breaking me, if only things would work differently.... the end results is still the same, we're the most privileged people on the planet, with the best gov't, and best finances. I think it's really easy to point out flaws but really hard to provide better results. Especially when every topic is a heated us vs them topic. If we toned down our rhetoric, toned down our animosity to small issues, we might keep this ship afloat and keep enjoying our cushy existence. But if we keep making every issue some huge tragedy then we run the risk of unnecessarily rocking the boat to the point where we cap size or miss seeing the giant iceberg ahead.

Our greatness does not come from our tax percentages. Agree that many things in this country run just fine. Didn't feel like I was coming off heated. Haven't even worked up a sweat. Tax rates are not a huge tragedy but are highly important to me. Disagreement is good, healthy and helpful. This has more to do with our greatness than tax rates ever will.

Nobody enjoys paying taxes, but it's the give part for the take that is America and American freedom.

Agree.

I would also argue that you couldn't form a private corp to handle all the same tasks and roles as our government does and have it run any better. The larger it gets the harder it is to run.

Disagree. Tasks are made overly cumbersome and inefficient from poor leadership, and poorly designed structure. Some of this is by design, IMO. I have worked for plenty of large corporations that had kingdom builders. However, in the private world this usually leads to the king eventually getting its head chopped off along with the rest of their kingdom. The latter part doesn't happen enough in the public sector, IMO. Anyone that has ever worked for Rio Tinto know exactly what I am talking about.

Another way I've looked at it is you either have wastage/inefficiency on the public side, or you have profits on the private side. Either way you're paying more than you have to as a baseline consumer. If our corp, which isn't all that large, but does surpass the previous 10 mil revenue threshold, didn't try to "profit" (i.e. bonuses and stock dividends) and just paid salaries, we could charge at least 40% less for our services... but we're greedy.

I love bonuses and stock dividends. I plan to get more and more of both. That crap load of taxes that I pay are largely a result of both. No need to thank me for my contributions to society. I happily do it.

 

[Sytes]

My point was, you think you hate the current system because your life is so f-in' soft and cushy you have nothing else of substance to be opposed to.

If we had a 50% tax rate you'd still be better off than the vast majority of humans alive today.

Stop fabricating problems and creating mountains out of mole hills; enjoy life before death and stop complaining about taxes.

My point is pride in America's economy has gone to shit. Whether that peanut butter is creamy or chunky is subject to interpretation... Just as we each hold our opinions about taxes. I'd ask why NOT care about taxes, the structure of taxes, the method it's managed, etc.

 

[SAJ-99]

I think these folks might be politicians that have run for office a time or two.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/09/19/politics/democrats-taxes-rich-explainer

I stand corrected. If that applies to you I can safely say your tax rate is less than the brackets suggest or you need a better accountant because the entire system is tilted in your favor.

 

[Irrelevant]

Random in the sense that we don't know each other from Adam. I agree you are very consistent.

But at the same time we probably know more about each other than we do about some of our neighbors. I mean, I've never talk taxes with my neighbors...

Our greatness does not come from our tax percentages. Agree that many things in this country run just fine. Didn't feel like I was coming off heated. Haven't even worked up a sweat. Tax rates are not a huge tragedy but are highly important to me. Disagreement is good, healthy and helpful. This has more to do with our greatness than tax rates ever will.

You weren't it was just a general comment, slightly exaggerated, because it makes for better counter points. I would say moderate tax rates are part of what makes the US great. Higher, and you don't get the fiscal diversity on the high end that people can view and ascribe to. Lower and our income disparity only increases and we look more feudal than democratic and people lose hope. Everyone should think they can work hard and potentially get rich, everyone should also make enough for a minor amount of disposable income (and the freedom to use it however they want).

Disagree. Tasks are made overly cumbersome and inefficient from poor leadership, and poorly designed structure. Some of this is by design, IMO. I have worked for plenty of large corporations that had kingdom builders. However, in the private world this usually leads to the king eventually getting its head chopped off along with the rest of their kingdom. The latter part doesn't happen enough in the public sector, IMO. Anyone that has ever worked for Rio Tinto know exactly what I am talking about.

I agree that management in the public sector absolutely needs more freedom in hiring, firing, and wages. It's consistently the biggest gripe. But I've been bogged down by internal BS policies enough to know gov't doesn't have a monopoly on inefficiency and asinine protocols.

I love bonuses and stock dividends. I plan to get more and more of both. That crap load of taxes that I pay are largely a result of both. No need to thank me for my contributions to society. I happily do it.

Well I'll thank you anyway, Thanks. And I'll try to remember to thank you again when taxes go up! LOL

 

[noharleyyet]

Nef, go ahead and tack on an additional 15%....just notate gratuity,

Betcha get audited.

 

[AvidIndoorsman]

Nef, go ahead and tack on an additional 15%....just notate gratuity,

Betcha get audited.

You’ll love this…

Elizabeth Warren Opted Against Paying Massachusetts’s Optional Higher Tax Rate - NewBostonPost

Elizabeth Warren wants to raise taxes if she’s elected president, but usually hasn’t chosen to pay more herself. Massachusetts state income tax forms allow taxpayers to pay a higher rate to help out the state government. But according to tax returns posted on Warren’s presidential campaign web...

newbostonpost.com

 

[Irrelevant]

My point is pride in America's economy has gone to shit. Whether that peanut butter is creamy or chunky is subject to interpretation... Just as we each hold our opinions about taxes.

Do you have pride? I do. So that's 2 for 2... I think, again, it's the same thing you've also lamented against. Do we actually have a problem or does someone benefit from us thinking we have a problem?

I'd ask why NOT care about taxes, the structure of taxes, the method it's managed, etc.

I mean, to some degree sure, we should care, but only to a point. I'd just reiterate it's not that big of a deal.

Nef, go ahead and tack on an additional 15%....just notate gratuity,

Betcha get audited.

1. I do, but the generally send it back at the end of the year. and 2. best I can tell I still do because I don't have a "tax guy" doing them for me and finding all the loopholes and my numbers are always WAY higher than anyone I know with a "tax guy".

 

[Sytes]

Do you have pride? I do. So that's 2 for 2... I think, again, it's the same thing you've also lamented against. Do we actually have a problem or does someone benefit from us thinking we have a problem?

Pride... Interesting definition. you say 2 for 2.

I say, the companies during WWI and WWII stopped commercial / industrial production routed to gov't tank/vehicle/item production- and not to pillage the gov't of the $, but for PRIDE in America.
Women and men stepped up to work however possible for American Pride.

Now-a-days? f- no.

 

[noharleyyet]

You’ll love this…

Elizabeth Warren Opted Against Paying Massachusetts’s Optional Higher Tax Rate - NewBostonPost

Elizabeth Warren wants to raise taxes if she’s elected president, but usually hasn’t chosen to pay more herself. Massachusetts state income tax forms allow taxpayers to pay a higher rate to help out the state government. But according to tax returns posted on Warren’s presidential campaign web...

newbostonpost.com

...read til the paywall blurred the text wllm. Shocked the millionaire cultural appropriat'ress is a hypocrite. Imma sic neffa on her.

 

[Deleted member 18333]

@neffa you should see if wllm will rent you a room at his place in Mass. Then you are free to give as much as you want to the State. You don’t need it, but think of how much better life would be for the rest of beantown.

 

[AvidIndoorsman]

@neffa you should see if wllm will rent you a room at his place in Mass. Then you are free to give as much as you want to the State. You don’t need it, but think of how much better life would be for the rest of beantown.

Slight problem… in Mass rent is an above the line deduction

 

[Sytes]

Slight problem… in Mass Mrs. [House] rent is an above the line deduction tax.

Fixed it for ya.

 

[Irrelevant]

@neffa you should see if wllm will rent you a room at his place in Mass. Then you are free to give as much as you want to the State. You don’t need it, but think of how much better life would be for the rest of beantown.

I keep telling him, there's no Mountains!

 

[Sytes]

Bet you could add a few more feet if you place a Washington State flag atop Mount Greylock(?).

 

[SAJ-99]

Jon Stewart had an episode on The Problem talking about the subject of why Americans seem to hate taxes so much versus other countries that actually pay higher rates. I have seen this as well. The show isn't political in the traditional sense, R vs. D, but more a rant on how the political system is set up around $ with lobbyist running the show. Preview and snippets on youtube.

 

[BigHornRam]

Jon Stewart had an episode on The Problem talking about the subject of why Americans seem to hate taxes so much versus other countries that actually pay higher rates. I have seen this as well. The show isn't political in the traditional sense, R vs. D, but more a rant on how the political system is set up around $ with lobbyist running the show. Preview and snippets on youtube.

Wow! That cost me some brain cells watching that.