De-publicize, De-glorify and De-monetize Western State Hunting

[Big Sky Guy]

Demonetizing it = (1) confronting the gear/clothing and other business producing this and/or sponsoring this stuff to causing them to stop; (2) pressuring the public platforms which are private companies (instagram, Facebook, YouTube, etc.) to remove hunting gore from their platforms.

This will push this stuff to private networks where current hunters interested can find and pay to see it, but where it has a much less chance of being stumbled upon by non hunters. Brian Call has already made this move and this is the future of hunting media if there is one.

I gotta ask, did you have anything to do with @Big Fin ’s recent Facebook hacking fiasco?

Asking for a friend.

 

[Desk Pop]

Demonetizing it = (1) confronting the gear/clothing and other business producing this and/or sponsoring this stuff to causing them to stop; (2) pressuring the public platforms which are private companies (instagram, Facebook, YouTube, etc.) to remove hunting gore from their platforms.

I was wondering who kept reporting my hunting pics from Africa saying that everything was endangered...

You are literally trying to censor hunters....and we are already being censored on those platforms. No self-respecting hunter likes the extremes you see on social media. Most hunting photos are not extreme, however. You are fighting against hunters.

You are not on the side of hunters. Maybe peddle this stuff on a PETA or Humane Society site. They also want to censor tasteful hunting photos that honor the game and the hunt.

 

[Desk Pop]

I volunteer with G&f in Wyoming

Last year I lead the charge to change bullet regs with game and fish in Wyoming...

But I have only lived here for 5 years.....so I reckon by the opinions stated in this thread I don’t matter...

If you didn't fall out of your mom's woman part straight onto Wyoming dirt with a barbel in each hand you don't matter.

 

[OverlordBear]

We believe the political damage from industry kill shots and dead animal photos far outweighs the political gains from any new hunters recruited in terms of actual votes to preserve hunting. There is no comparison.

You're California example is great - and demonstrates how easy it is for the anti-hunting movement to campaign against hunting. They are testing and learning from efforts and victories to limit predator hunting and will eventually turn to ungulates. Again, most non hunters currently support hunting as long as it's Fair Chase, and the hunter eats what he kills. Predator hunting is an easy target for anti-hunters ... bear baiting violates Fair Chase and no-one eats bobcat.

Dividing hunters?
The self-promoting hunters and hunting industry marketing is producing this stuff to increase audience size which they hope monetize through marketing, product sales, subscriptions, etc. They are not doing it to recruit new hunters. Their interest in new hunters is focused on product sales, not pro-hunting votes.

I would submit that the self-promoting hunters and the hunting industry marketing is choosing short-term financial gain over the long term future of hunting.

In this way, self-promoting hunters and hunting industry marketing are the friends of our enemies - the anti-hunting movement - and our direct political opponents.

Actually I enjoy both bobcat and mtn lion both are like tasty mtn pigs, best white meat on the mountain.

 

[Hilljackoutlaw]

I dont completely disagree with you by any means, but you gotta be the worst face of this movement. One doesn't even have to read past the title of the thread to see your self-absorbed. Why is it just western big game hunting your ohh so concerned about and not all big game hunting or all hunting in general? Maybe its because the insanity on opening dayof deer season in New York doesn't affect you so you don't give a shit. You come off as only caring about your hunting spots that other people are frequenting more often in the last decade so your panties are in a wad. And if this is not the case then you have to choose your words better.

Furthermore anti's have been around forever they don't need a gorey kill shot to pass legislation they just need a differing opinion. Your just using technology as your scapegoat so you can cry to your echo chamber that you guys don't have the mountain to yourself. Sorry pal but I'm not sorry that I transplanted my ass from PA to Idaho mainly for hunting purposes and I'm gonna hunt all over these beautiful mountains in every rocky mountain state that my income allows and I'm gonna continue to take 5-10 people with me from back east like I have the last 6 years until my body stops me. And if that pisses you off ill enjoy it even more.

Mountain purist my ass more like mountain hoarder.

 

[mtnprst]

I gotta ask, did you have anything to do with @Big Fin ’s recent Facebook hacking fiasco?

Asking for a friend.

No. Never visited that page or knew it was hacked.

 

[OverlordBear]

Great, now I just have to pick which camp I am in;
1. Get off my lawn
2. I like hunting
3. Dink shooter
4. Van camper

Best post of the thread haha

 

[OverlordBear]

I'll bite. What's the plan to drastically increase ungulate populations while still giving out tags?

Get rid of western ranching beef and sheep industries and turn all the land into BLM or Forest Service hahahaha.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

Predator hunting is an easy target for anti-hunters ... bear baiting violates Fair Chase and no-one eats bobcat.

Except for, apparently, James Tutchton CPW commissioner and former lead attorney for Wildearth Guardians.

Please help defeat James Tuchton

All we need your help as stated on many threads, please copy and paste my email as you see fit. In addition , I will be flooding senators emails with multiple emails between now and 2/16. If you would like to blind me shoot me an email [email protected] and I can forward you the...

www.hunttalk.com

 

[dgc1963]

Here's a local perspective - specific to Newberg and Rinella - both are recent move-ins to the west from Michigan, and the first thing they do is glorify, glamorize, publicize and then monetize western-state hunting. Hunter numbers are up - not only from NR hunters, but also resident hunters.

This benefits the hunting industry - but does it benefit hunters? It's harder to draw tags, trailheads are crowded, and social media is flooded with dead animal photos and kill shots - every upload turning non hunters against us and threatening the future of hunting.

So the info on here and many of Randys vids being on your own adventures helping the regular Joe hunt out west doesnt help hunters ? not sure I agree with that
Ok I get it your working to change the laws in the state you live in great , but it seem to me and what do I know cause I live in Pa but it also seems like your telling hunters dont hunt this way dont do this or that and to pressure scocial media to ban hunting content when they already are doesnt help hunters much either. And this is American right? you know the whole freedom thing
And to use Randys web site to pee on his corn flakes MAN that take big brass ones
As I said many time this site has great value to hunters I offer every yr if anyone get a Pa elk tag im happy to help them fill it, have I applied every yr I could yup, did I get one yet nope, but Id still help someone from out of state yup even taking time off work
maybe they would help me one day

 

[Deleted member 28227]

So many nonresidents and recent transplants on here that have so much to say, you’d think they lived out here 365 days a year for the past 40 years with all their expert knowledge they’ve been sharing. All based on tons of in the field experience and not just typer sniping and surfing the web. But really most of what they say is with the intent to guard their own perceived right to hunt in my state or any other westerner’s state. Then as soon as someone from WY or MT says something about the decline of game animals and that they feel it is connected in some way to the ridiculous onslaught of hunting BUSINESS and industry, they call that man selfish and accuse him of just wanting more tags for himself. What do YOU as a NR think you are sounding like you want? Who do YOU as a NR sound like you are concerned about? Oh I forgot, you’re an “advocate”. Fellas, many of you sound like an advocate for yourself just like you are accusing @mtnprst of being. And if you think that the explosion of hunting & hunting media as a business is not going to ruin hunting at the rate it is going then you have an IQ lower than a speed limit and are being duped.
My state doesn’t NEED your NR money to increase ungulate herds, you all are just easy targets to get that money. As more and more non residents apply each year, the cost is going to keep going up and up, not because they are trying to dissuade people from applying, but because you are willing to give more and more money. Increases in a couple states this year. That combined with hunting social media continuing to recruit more NR’s, it will become harder and harder for you to hunt out here.

Do some research yourself what has happened when Montana has tried to increase resident fees in the past? You do realize that MT has the cheapest Resident elk tag in the nation, by far, it’s not that much higher than CO’s was in 1952 and CO needs to double the price of their tag. @BuzzH has made some good points about it not being about money. Yet we see allocation debates and then when residents are asked to pay $25 dollars for an elk tag the bitch and moan.

Good luck raising that money without NR.

I’m curious to here what the necessary resume requirement is for an opinion.

Randy has lived in MT longer than I’ve been alive.

Since apparently this is how we have to identify, I’m a 4th generation Coloradan and I was born and raised on the western slope. I left for school came back for a while, left for Montana while my wife went to school came back, I own a property that’s been in my family for close to 100 years .

I believe folks drop the “xx generation” card as a preemptive ad hominem attack I don’t have a lot of facts and I’m not gonna try real hard, but f-you I’m better.

Buzzh and Randy have my respect because of the work they’ve done I have no idea how many generations of whatever BuzzH, he fashions the facts into a giant club and beats you to death with it. We disagree, but man does that guy show up, same with Randy.

Anyway, thread has peaked, I’m out.

@BuzzH I see your argument, I do worry about the precedent lowering to 90/10 sets for residents in Utah, NM, MT etc who see themselves not drawing and say look WY did it, let’s cut ours to 5%. That said I’m not sure I would like a guide rule like Alaska in lieu of no draw allocation. That’s MSG, for elk and deer, I did the math and realized as a CO resident I would never draw and I can hunt elk and deer every year so whatever.

I’m far more worried about general tags in MT and WY then permits and LE.

My point over all is 90/10 might make some Residents feel like they got some justice, but it’s divisive and doesn’t solve any problems.

 

[VAspeedgoat]

Mtnprst, what is your take on land transfer to the states? Assuming you are against, how do you think your stance on NRs will affect that? Those questions could also be directed at others who seem to very much resent non residents and the current tag allotment.

 

[Big Sky Guy]

I was wondering who kept reporting my hunting pics from Africa saying that everything was endangered...

You are literally trying to censor hunters....and we are already being censored on those platforms. No self-respecting hunter likes the extremes you see on social media. Most hunting photos are not extreme, however. You are fighting against hunters.

You are not on the side of hunters. Maybe peddle this stuff on a PETA or Humane Society site. They also want to censor tasteful hunting photos that honor the game and the hunt.

I think @mtnprst brings up an interesting perspective on a lot of this. But this^ right here seems to be where a lot of us are at with this.

The goal of “(2) pressuring the public platforms which are private companies (instagram, Facebook, YouTube, etc.) to remove hunting gore from their platforms.” seems odd/ironic as it is my belief, and I believe that of @Big Fin and probably the majority on this site (speculating a bit), that this goal will happen regardless of your “pressure.” Big Tech is no friend to the hunting industry, and that hasn’t been a secret. Facebook already censors these photos and you’re trying to tell us they need convincing/pressure to further restrict/ban individuals like Randy Newberg!? Furthermore it is my understanding from what Randy has shared over the past few weeks that he has already been demonetized by YouTube further showing that this is happening regardless of your “pressure.”

So I think a lot of us feel you are fighting directly against hunters. Asking our adversaries (Big Tech) to do what they are already on track to do doesn’t seem like much of a goal.

I personally think Randy, as well as others such as Steve Rinella, are key figures in what I believe is a paradigm shift towards showing how hunting is conservation and how this provides sustainable, free range organic meals to those participating.

I thank you for your boldness and if anything I’m reminded once again to be careful of what I post and to be as tasteful as possible with shots with dead animals in them. The fact that Randy is letting you “pee on his corn flakes” as one user above wrote (really like that saying, thanks for sharing) says volumes about his character and the kind of guy you are trying to prove is providing cannon fodder for the anti-hunting industry.

 

[HandgunHunter]

Should hunters post pretty pictures on social media.....yes, that’s common sense.

“Demonetize” hunting. Yeah that’s not going to happen. Most western states have built up tourism industries around it. A lot more state income comes in from that than just tag sales.

That is literally asking for the entire tourism/guide industry to fold up to benefit you....

The fact of the matter is....every single American owns the public land across the country. They deserve access and sporting access.

That’s wonderful that some of you invest time into your passion....some of us don’t have that time.

I sure am lucky to be in a position to put a decent amount of money towards getting people to the field every year. Generally targeted towards disabled vets or disabled persons.....just 15k for 2021 if we are measuring.

I do volunteer to help with various management practices with WYGandF every chance I get....

And when an issue comes up that my expertise links in with I go drive the effort. Hence why I spear headed the change in chapter 32 bullet regs and contacted every one of my company contacts to put together that document and it sailed through.

I’m lucky with my trade to have some contacts all over the firearm and hunting industry. But I don’t know Randy and I have no idea who the OP is.

On the bad winter days I have watched some of his shows and find them to be some of the more tastefully put together shows with good information.

All I can tell from this thread is the OP appears passionate, has a horrible idea on how to deliver a message, and I don’t want him representing me as a hunter.

I draw 6-8 tags a year in Wyoming. Generally 2 are limited entry buck/bull. And I have taken at least 1 animal a year I would consider a wall hanger.....99% on public land...

But what do I know...

 

[thebestusernamesaretaken]

This will push this stuff to private networks where current hunters interested can find and pay to see it, but where it has a much less chance of being stumbled upon by non hunters. Brian Call has already made this move and this is the future of hunting media if there is one.

get-n-birdy said:
What is the definition of a "self promoter"? Seems like the organization is selling t-shirts and merch promoting its beliefs? Kinda confusing to weed out the difference between all the definitions and verbiage?

Any person who produces hunting media (video, photos) with the intention of monetizing it.
---------------
Really? This isn't monetizing it? If you have to PAY for a subscription - it's been monetized.

 

[mtnprst]

I think @mtnprst brings up an interesting perspective on a lot of this. But this^ right here seems to be where a lot of us are at with this.

The goal of “(2) pressuring the public platforms which are private companies (instagram, Facebook, YouTube, etc.) to remove hunting gore from their platforms.” seems odd/ironic as it is my belief, and I believe that of @Big Fin and probably the majority on this site (speculating a bit), that this goal will happen regardless of your “pressure.” Big Tech is no friend to the hunting industry, and that hasn’t been a secret. Facebook already censors these photos and you’re trying to tell us they need convincing/pressure to further restrict/ban individuals like Randy Newberg!? Furthermore it is my understanding from what Randy has shared over the past few weeks that he has already been demonetized by YouTube further showing that this is happening regardless of your “pressure.”

Not surprised that the hunting media monetization of YouTube is diminishing - there's more competition all the time and only so many in the audience. The smart, biggest, and most establish hunting media producers will likely move to private, subscription - based models, and it will be a race for everyone in the space. Putting up a paywall will significantly reduce audience, and reduced audience will reduce advertising income and sponsorship support.

Newberg and Rinella have already done this somewhat with their Netflix and Prime contracts - others will follow with paid Youtube channels, etc. Again, Brian Call is leading the way for the second tier self-promoters. I soon expect Newberg and Rinella to put up paywalls to their forums/websites, etc.

As well, I predict someone within the hunting industry (meateater?) will soon build a hunting-specific paywall platform and work to lure hunt media producers away from the free platforms - if this hasn't been done already. Likely the model will be one monthly subscription with access to multiple hunting shows.

The challenge for the hunting media producers will be a significantly reduced audience and advertising/sponsorship pie. There will be vicious competition for it. Many currently earn advertising income on the free platforms from non-hunting related ads which are algorithmically placed by high subscriber numbers or video views. This non-hunting related advertising income will dry up once the private networks are created and paywalls put up.

So I think a lot of us feel you are fighting directly against hunters. Asking our adversaries (Big Tech) to do what they are already on track to do doesn’t seem like much of a goal.

I personally think Randy, as well as others such as Steve Rinella, are key figures in what I believe is a paradigm shift towards showing how hunting is conservation and how this provides sustainable, free range organic meals to those participating.

I thank you for your boldness and if anything I’m reminded once again to be careful of what I post and to be as tasteful as possible with shots with dead animals in them. The fact that Randy is letting you “pee on his corn flakes” as one user above wrote (really like that saying, thanks for sharing) says volumes about his character and the kind of guy you are trying to prove is providing cannon fodder for the anti-hunting industry.

Agree - it does speak well of Mr. Newberg.

 

[mtnprst]

I was wondering who kept reporting my hunting pics from Africa saying that everything was endangered...

You are literally trying to censor hunters....and we are already being censored on those platforms. No self-respecting hunter likes the extremes you see on social media. Most hunting photos are not extreme, however. You are fighting against hunters.

You are not on the side of hunters. Maybe peddle this stuff on a PETA or Humane Society site. They also want to censor tasteful hunting photos that honor the game and the hunt.

I'd add a third demonetizing step - Identifying hunting industry manufacturers which readily sponsor or produce glorified western hunting media with volumes of dead animal photos, video taped kill shots, etc., and working to boycott those companies.

As well, creating a hunting media "code of conduct" for hunting industry manufacturers, and identifying those companies who agree the gore is political suicide for the future of hunting, and and agree to avoid it in all marketing.

 

[HandgunHunter]

I'd add a third demonetizing step - Identifying hunting industry manufacturers which readily sponsor or produce glorified western hunting media with volumes of dead animal photos, video taped kill shots, etc., and working to boycott those companies.

As well, creating a hunting media "code of conduct" for hunting industry manufacturers, and identifying those companies who agree the gore is political suicide for the future of hunting, and and agree to avoid it in all marketing.

How do you intend to drive a boycott?

In today’s world you can get an idea on the momentum of a movement by the groups social media following.

42 on Facebook and 140ish on Twitter.

Looks like there is a long ways to go to get momentum.

But if it’s the movements first day.....I guess you are off to a good start.

 

[Bgriffith]

I'd add a third demonetizing step - Identifying hunting industry manufacturers which readily sponsor or produce glorified western hunting media with volumes of dead animal photos, video taped kill shots, etc., and working to boycott those companies.

As well, creating a hunting media "code of conduct" for hunting industry manufacturers, and identifying those companies who agree the gore is political suicide for the future of hunting, and and agree to avoid it in all marketing.

Might as well go one step further and make and trademark your own organizations stamp of approval... for a small fee we will give you our stamp of approval. Think organic farming certified.

 

[The Hedgehog]

@mtnprst is this an example of the hunting gore you're looking to squash? https://www.hunttalk.com/threads/elk-lets-see-them.252485/