Colorado Wolves

[James Riley]

I support wolf reintroduction throughout their historic range. And no, I don't care if the specific *type* of wolf is different than the type that once occupied the area. I reckon "we" should have thought about that before wiping them out, eh?

I also think grizzly and bison should be returned to Colorado. My goal in hunting is to go as primitive as legally possible and under circumstances that are as pre-Columbian as possible.

As I've said before, there is a continuum that runs from hunting video games, to zoos, to farms, to high fence, to public land, to wilderness missing parts, to wilderness with all or most of it's parts. I don't think I should be told to move to Alaska or Canada to find the latter.

If I don't make a kill because some wolves got it, so be it. Not everything is about me or any other human for that matter. Well, strike that: everything IS about humans, and that, in my opinion, is the problem.

I think the average person is totally out of touch with nature and how it works. This includes many hunters who fail to see the beauty in a pack of wolves hamstringing their prey and ripping it apart, alive. Hunters like that, to me, are just as selfish and far from reality as the person who would be shocked to see such a thing and who thinks food comes from the grocery store. They don't know real shock. The prey does. Reminds me of the cowboy carrying the calf out of the blizzard and patting himself on the back for being all empathetic and humane. "Oh, look at the rough man with the soft heart! How romantic!" The same guy who veals that little bawling bastard in the next breath.

I think we need to make a virtue of necessity (Leopold) but right now it's all about serving the *perceived* interests of the human race in one way or another, all at the expense of our long term interests and the "resources" we suck dry. If we don't get to the point where social recognition, honor, money, esteem, fame, respect, and child-emulation-roll-goal-setting go to those who participate in (at the most primitive level) and protect what's left, then it's gone. Gone.

We need to revisit who we look up to and what they are doing.

Hunting is the *only* time in my life when I am not diverted (yGasset) and that is threatened when I perceive something that should not be there, and fail to perceive something that should be.

Am I a delusional dreamer? I'll own that. But we, as hunters, are part of the problem when we allow the baseline for what should be to get re-set every generation.

Back to my fantasy land.

 

[airlocksniffer]

I support wolf reintroduction throughout their historic range. And no, I don't care if the specific *type* of wolf is different than the type that once occupied the area. I reckon "we" should have thought about that before wiping them out, eh?

I also think grizzly and bison should be returned to Colorado. My goal in hunting is to go as primitive as legally possible and under circumstances that are as pre-Columbian as possible.

As I've said before, there is a continuum that runs from hunting video games, to zoos, to farms, to high fence, to public land, to wilderness missing parts, to wilderness with all or most of it's parts. I don't think I should be told to move to Alaska or Canada to find the latter.

If I don't make a kill because some wolves got it, so be it. Not everything is about me or any other human for that matter. Well, strike that: everything IS about humans, and that, in my opinion, is the problem.

I think the average person is totally out of touch with nature and how it works. This includes many hunters who fail to see the beauty in a pack of wolves hamstringing their prey and ripping it apart, alive. Hunters like that, to me, are just as selfish and far from reality as the person who would be shocked to see such a thing and who thinks food comes from the grocery store. They don't know real shock. The prey does. Reminds me of the cowboy carrying the calf out of the blizzard and patting himself on the back for being all empathetic and humane. "Oh, look at the rough man with the soft heart! How romantic!" The same guy who veals that little bawling bastard in the next breath.

I think we need to make a virtue of necessity (Leopold) but right now it's all about serving the *perceived* interests of the human race in one way or another, all at the expense of our long term interests and the "resources" we suck dry. If we don't get to the point where social recognition, honor, money, esteem, fame, respect, and child-emulation-roll-goal-setting go to those who participate in (at the most primitive level) and protect what's left, then it's gone. Gone.

We need to revisit who we look up to and what they are doing.

Hunting is the *only* time in my life when I am not diverted (yGasset) and that is threatened when I perceive something that should not be there, and fail to perceive something that should be.

Am I a delusional dreamer? I'll own that. But we, as hunters, are part of the problem when we allow the baseline for what should be to get re-set every generation.

Back to my fantasy land.

Great post.

 

[Oak]

When the wolf topic comes up later, do they give each person a time limit to speak or is it free reign of the floor?

I'm not sure how they will handle it if there are 100+ people wanting to testify. Typically each person who wishes to speak has a 3 minute limit.

I'm going to make a prediction that the Commission chooses not to vote on this today. Nothing to base that upon except my gut feeling.

 

[Oak]

The Commission just adopted Alternative #2 by a 7-4 vote.

 

[Big Fin]

The Commission just adopted Alternative #2 by a 7-4 vote.

That's good news, even if a little scary. Two seats on that Commission change to people less supportive of hunting and the vote is 5 - 6 the other direction.

Good work to all who put their shoulder to the wheel.

 

[HighDesertSage]

Oak,

Thanks for posting and keeping us in the loop. I second Randy, thanks and good work to all involved.

 

[JohnCushman]

That's a sigh of relief..though, possibly temporary, I'm sure

 

[Mudranger1]

The Commission just adopted Alternative #2 by a 7-4 vote.

they voted today so I will never listen to you again!...unless your gut says you want to take me hunting

 

[one ate E grain]

Good to hear, I left just before the vote, I just wanted to hear what the players had to say.

Highlights were...
Defenders had the most effective speaker if not as polished as Sierra Club. Sierra club person looked well preserved from view in the back. Defenders used a lot more rhetoric. Wild Earth Guardians was pretty much way out to lunch. WEG lady used bogus figures from some old wolf commission and a current commissioner called her on it. Turns out he was actually on that commission. Funny as hell. Took the air out of her sails. Defenders had conducted a bogus poll and a self identified Democrat Commissioner called him on it.

Only hunting group was Big Game Forever who I think are those folks from Utah, kind of passionate. Best no wolf speaker was a cowboy that was maybe 30 years old at most. He was the only one to get applause from our side. I was standing behind the cowboy and 2 other cowboys who spoke, they were all redder than get out from working in all the snow every day feeding livestock etc. The 30 year old said he loved his animals and the thought of them getting torn up just drove him nuts. Guy wasn't reading any prepared statement. Room was quiet when he was done.

Five from the nay side spoke and five from the yay. The way the thing was worded either option one or two was still a no Mexican wolves in CO resolution. One pro wolf lady from NY went on about how her grandkids had stuffed animals that were wolves and how she wanted a baby elephant when she was a kid and how horrible it was about Cecil. She actually said she was from NY City, talked about Central Park.

Lot of people from CPW were there, kind of a big get together. Wildlife Services. Some guys from CO Bowhunters at the door sizing up the enemy. Good place to see people from the other side of the hill and what not. Every body in town for the big meeting. No hunting seasons to speak of right now.

Mostly people pretty dignified. Some nutter from the Fort saying he had a Phd in Wolf Management spoke and the moderator had to tell him to cool it with the ad homs. One of the commissioners gave him a little lecture about writing nasty letters to the Camera.

Presentation from the scientists was unambiguous. Way out of original range, very real danger of losing Mexican wolf genes due to dispersers out of WY. Some Defenders started shouting "you lie" towards the end. Bunch of Defenders there, maybe 60 or 70. Twenty or more Fish and Game officers, maybe ten state troopers making overtime. Sprinkling of cowboy hats and camo.

I might need to look into how commissioners are chosen and try to lobby for some more to my liking. Need an RMEF person there. Elk are by far the largest source of revenue.

 

[Oak]

they voted today so I will never listen to you again!...unless your gut says you want to take me hunting

Yeah, I whiffed on that one. There was some discussion about voting to not approve either alternative, but I believe that many of the Commission members didn't want to give the wolf advocates more time to organize.

 

[Oak]

Some nutter from the Fort saying he had a Phd in Wolf Management spoke and the moderator had to tell him to cool it with the ad homs. One of the commissioners gave him a little lecture about writing nasty letters to the Camera.

That was Gary Wockner. He sat on the original CO wolf working group in the early 2000's.

 

[Big Fin]

..............................

I might need to look into how commissioners are chosen and try to lobby for some more to my liking. Need an RMEF person there. Elk are by far the largest source of revenue.

Two RMEF Regional Directors, paid staff, were there. RMEF position was given to every Commissioner and the Director, and all were contacted.

You observation raises a good point for me. Might be best to make sure and reiterate a position publicly, so that all are aware of that presence and that position.

 

[TheDudeAbides]

Good to hear, I left just before the vote, I just wanted to hear what the players had to say.

Highlights were...
Defenders had the most effective speaker if not as polished as Sierra Club. Sierra club person looked well preserved from view in the back. Defenders used a lot more rhetoric. Wild Earth Guardians was pretty much way out to lunch. WEG lady used bogus figures from some old wolf commission and a current commissioner called her on it. Turns out he was actually on that commission. Funny as hell. Took the air out of her sails. Defenders had conducted a bogus poll and a self identified Democrat Commissioner called him on it.

Only hunting group was Big Game Forever who I think are those folks from Utah, kind of passionate. Best no wolf speaker was a cowboy that was maybe 30 years old at most. He was the only one to get applause from our side. I was standing behind the cowboy and 2 other cowboys who spoke, they were all redder than get out from working in all the snow every day feeding livestock etc. The 30 year old said he loved his animals and the thought of them getting torn up just drove him nuts. Guy wasn't reading any prepared statement. Room was quiet when he was done.

Five from the nay side spoke and five from the yay. The way the thing was worded either option one or two was still a no Mexican wolves in CO resolution. One pro wolf lady from NY went on about how her grandkids had stuffed animals that were wolves and how she wanted a baby elephant when she was a kid and how horrible it was about Cecil. She actually said she was from NY City, talked about Central Park.

Lot of people from CPW were there, kind of a big get together. Wildlife Services. Some guys from CO Bowhunters at the door sizing up the enemy. Good place to see people from the other side of the hill and what not. Every body in town for the big meeting. No hunting seasons to speak of right now.

Mostly people pretty dignified. Some nutter from the Fort saying he had a Phd in Wolf Management spoke and the moderator had to tell him to cool it with the ad homs. One of the commissioners gave him a little lecture about writing nasty letters to the Camera.

Presentation from the scientists was unambiguous. Way out of original range, very real danger of losing Mexican wolf genes due to dispersers out of WY. Some Defenders started shouting "you lie" towards the end. Bunch of Defenders there, maybe 60 or 70. Twenty or more Fish and Game officers, maybe ten state troopers making overtime. Sprinkling of cowboy hats and camo.

I might need to look into how commissioners are chosen and try to lobby for some more to my liking. Need an RMEF person there. Elk are by far the largest source of revenue.

This sounds like a reality TV show.

Thanks for posting this.

 

[Southern Elk]

Good news. I hope this issue dies down now, but I doubt it will for very long.

 

[Ben Lamb]

Good work everyone.

The microphone is for show & getting press, relationships are for making change. Always good to have someone stand up rather than let the leeches from UT take over.

 

[MiStickSlinger]

Good to hear, as a yearly visitor to Colorado I was a little worried when I saw this resolution

 

[HighDesertSage]

I would be curious to know who the 4 were that voted in favor. Anyone know how I can find this information? I'm heading over the CPW site now to take a look.

 

[Oak]

I would be curious to know who the 4 were that voted in favor. Anyone know how I can find this information? I'm heading over the CPW site now to take a look.

I think it is important to understand what the choices were, what the purpose of the exercise was, and to hear the 2+ hours of discussion before the vote took place before we start lynching people (not saying you are wanting a lynching). Every single commissioner spoke at length about their thoughts on the issue.

The purpose of this vote was ostensibly to support Governor Hickenlooper in regards to the USFWS actions to recover the Mexican gray wolf. The USFWS has proposed including the portion of Colorado lying south of I-70 and west of I-25 in the recovery area for Mexican gray wolves, despite the belief that their historical range was entirely south of I-40 in NM and AZ. The Governor sent a letter to the USFWS stating that he did not support the inclusion of Colorado in the recovery area, and stressed the importance of working with Mexico on the recovery plan, where over 90% of the historical M. gray wolf range lies.

The Commission revisited the wolf resolution they passed in 2005 and developed two alternative new resolutions to replace the old resolution. The 2005 resolution stated:

NOW THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED, that the Colorado Parks and Wildlife Commission affirms
its support of the Wolf Working Group’s recommendations adopted by the Wildlife
Commission in May 2005 and hereby opposes any introduction of Mexican or intentional
reintroduction of gray wolves in the State of Colorado.

The two alternatives they voted on were:

Alternative Version 1:

NOW THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED, that the Colorado Parks and Wildlife Commission
affirms its support of the Wolf Working Group’s recommendations adopted by the Wildlife
Commission in May 2005, recommends that Mexican wolf recovery efforts be confined to the
subspecies’ historic range, and emphasizes the importance of bi-national recovery planning
with Mexico.

Alternative Version 2:

NOW THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED, that the Colorado Parks and Wildlife Commission
affirms its support of the Wolf Working Group’s recommendations adopted by the Wildlife
Commission in May 2005, opposes the intentional release of any wolves into
Colorado, recommends that Mexican wolf recovery efforts be confined to the subspecies’
historic range, and emphasizes the importance of bi-national recovery planning with Mexico.

The discussion among the Commissioners yesterday largely revolved around that one extra phrase in Alternative #2, "opposes the intentional release of any wolves into Colorado." Some of the Commissioners felt that the phrase was not necessary in order to support the Governor's letter, and was overly political and antagonistic given the fact that state authority on ES transplants lies with the state legislature, not the PWC.

At least one Commissioner said that he would vote for either alternative, although he preferred #2. The dissenting Commissioners preferred Alternative #1. When it came time for a motion, one Commissioner quickly motioned to approve alternative #2, which was seconded. Then there was a long discussion about whether another commissioner could ask for an amendment of the motion (to the language of Alt. #1), some discussion about Robert's Rules, etc. Finally they voted to approve Alt. #2 and the vote was 7-4, with the nays being Pribyl, Kane, Zimmerman and Zipp. It is very likely that if the first motion was to approve Alt. #1, it would have failed 6-5.

Ultimately, the vote yesterday was 100% symbolic, and likely just lit a fire under the wolf advocates. The gentleman mentioned above who was scolded by the Chairman for questioning the integrity of CPW staff posted this on his Facebook page today:

Dear Friends of Colorado Wolves!

We were soundly defeated last night. In that defeat I offer some perspective and encouragement.

When this issue arose in front of the Colorado Parks and Wildlife Commission (CPW) 7 weeks ago, I took a look at the makeup of the Commission and I figured it would be a 7 – 4 vote to oppose wolf reintroduction. I counseled my good friends in the movement that we were very likely to lose, and I’m not happy to have been right, but saw it coming nonetheless.

The anti-wolf sentiment that has power in Colorado politics is very entrenched and long-standing. The vote last night was about power, politics, and money, not science and the public’s will. What disappointed me most was the presentation made by the CPW staffmember – it was absurdly biased and filled with misinformation, anti-science, and false statements. When the staffmember actually said that not introducing wolves into Colorado would create a “better outcome for wolves in Colorado,” I about did an outloud gag-choke knowing that indeed George Orwell is alive and well in Colorado politics.

Watching the testimony, I knew the vote had already been sealed. The temperament of the anti-wolf testifiers was cool and calm, while our side (including me) was a bit squirming and pleading. The anti-wolf people had done their work when the Commission was appointed, and so all they had to do was make the calls, line up the votes, and enjoy the outcome. As a two-decade veteran of many political battles and public testimonies, the outcome of a vote is almost always pre-ordained and our public displays are almost always symbolic at best. The Chair of the Commission would not have brought this resolution forward if it would not have passed.

What I was most proud of last night was the passion and professionalism of all of you! You filled the lawn in the rally before the meeting, you filled the room inside, nearly a hundred of you waited outside or were turned away for lack of space inside, and when inside you waited quietly and patiently for the issue to come up. Further, even though almost none of you got to actually speak to the Commission, you were professional and respectful during the entire hearing.

You did wolves proud! And it is that professionalism and passion that will ultimately bring the wolf back to the State of Colorado. Wolves were here once, they will eventually come again, and you will be able to look back in some number of years and know that it was your work and passion – over years of effort – that helped heal the landscape, restore wolves, and pave that path for environmental justice in our state.

As we move forward I offer four suggestions for action:

1. Keep professionally and respectfully growing the movement here in Colorado to restore wolves. The public’s will must eventually be heard and the Colorado landscape is yearning for wolves.

2. If the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service decides to reintroduce wolves into Colorado, support them in that effort. If they don’t, they should have, and you have every right to legally intervene to force them to.

3. Prepare for a statewide ballot initiative – that’s the best way to make sure the public’s voice is heard in Colorado’s future.

4. If you happen to be in Yellowstone, and happen to be driving a truck, and a breeding pair of wolves happens to jump in the back of your truck, and you happen to drive back to Colorado, and that pair of wolves happens to jump out of the truck and starts a wolf pack here, please know that it is highly illegal to transport wild and endangered wildlife across state lines, and for the record know that I strongly counseled you against it. smile emoticon

Keep Howling, Friends, and Thank You For Your Work! Gary

 

[Zach]

Wockner is a kook that the AG should be taking a serious look at....

I love how there is talk of wolf reintroduction when there are already wolves IN CO...

 

[sparker4]

Unfortunately the people pushing for Wolf reintroduction don't care about the affects wolves have on deer and elk herds. They say they do, but there have been enough states where wolves have been reintroduced with massive declines in elk and deer herd numbers that the facts can't be denied. Being someone who has spent much time in the St. Joe river drainage of Northern Idaho or over the top in the Clark Fork drainage of Montana it is apparent that elk and deer herds have drastically declined. My grandfather before me hunted these areas for years as well so I have firsthand information of the way it used to be prior to 1995. Now granted, not all of the decline is due to wolves, we had a few pretty bad winters that didn't help them out, but the wolves have taken their toll for sure. In the valley of the North Fork of the St. Joe, from Moon Pass to Avery, I know a guy who trapped 23 wolves in that valley in one winter. We are talking about a canyon that is approximately 15 miles long. The wolf concentration in that valley is out of control.

My point is simply that we as hunters need a new argument. The one we are holding on to so tight isn't working because the powers that be that pass these initiatives obviously do not care about the facts of what the wolves do to elk and deer herds. The evidence is undeniable. I don't have a new argument. One might be the cost of reintroducing them and the cost of managing them or the lost revenue when hunters don't buy out of state tags because the hunting is so poor. I don't know what the best alternative argument is, but arguing that the herds will be decimated is falling on deaf ears. We need to come up with a new angle if we are going to have any chance at winning this thing; our hunting depends on it and our kids and grandkids hunting depends on it.