Cecil the Lion
- Thread starter NKQualtieri
- Start date
I've purposefully ignored the Cecil story, as it it not much more than a circus act where a lot of uninformed people on both sides are making claims to defend/support their own biases that are never going to be swayed by any amount of facts and data.
Below is a link to an article I stumbled across while reading the Minneapolis Star-Tribune article on my beloved football Vikings; SKOL Vikings! The headline caught me, so I thought I would give it two minutes of my time. Vikings and NFL preseason topics are that boring, I guess.
This is probably one of the more insightful pieces for me; the story that is not told. It is about the plight of the people who have no land, no rights in wildlife as we have here in the United States, and as a result, hardly any hope.
Basic food supply is at question here, and without land or wildlife, it is pretty hard to have a reliable food source. I read it a second time, completely ignoring any context of the hyperbole of a dead lion and those so irate over its fate.
Reading it a second time, I thought about how hopeless it would be to live in a country where you have no wildlife benefits, only detriments. Where your efforts to feed your family from the land result in punishment and persecution. And the corollary is also obvious - we who enjoy an interest in wildlife, abundant public lands, and have a stable food supply are afforded the luxury of arguing about a lion's death in the context of it being a heinous crime or as a life-changing resource that helps economies. For those not granted a vested interest in wildlife, for those with no public lands on which to secure food, the luxury of that argument is not afforded.
http://www.startribune.com/life-in-...lack-of-concern-for-cecil-the-hero/320534192/
Easy to bitch about things in this country, regardless of what side of the Cecil discussion you come from. Yet, we live in such a state of opulence compared to those most impacted by lions and other African wildlife, that Americans and Europeans cannot see the ridiculousness of the way they have framed this debate.
The author asks forgiveness for lack of concern over Cecil. I forgive the Zimbabwe locals for their lack of concern over Cecil. A lack of concern I also share. Seeing how many hunters are pissing all over themselves on this topic makes me shake my head, causing me to wish they demonstrated the same concern on topics related to our own native species, funding of our agencies, protecting our public lands from politicians, and securing more access.
My prayer tonight will be one of thanks that I live in the hinterlands of America, not the hinterlands of Zimbabwe. A good reminder of just how lucky I am to live in this country and enjoy all it has to offer; and why I should do what I can to keep it that way.
Below is a link to an article I stumbled across while reading the Minneapolis Star-Tribune article on my beloved football Vikings; SKOL Vikings! The headline caught me, so I thought I would give it two minutes of my time. Vikings and NFL preseason topics are that boring, I guess.
This is probably one of the more insightful pieces for me; the story that is not told. It is about the plight of the people who have no land, no rights in wildlife as we have here in the United States, and as a result, hardly any hope.
Basic food supply is at question here, and without land or wildlife, it is pretty hard to have a reliable food source. I read it a second time, completely ignoring any context of the hyperbole of a dead lion and those so irate over its fate.
Reading it a second time, I thought about how hopeless it would be to live in a country where you have no wildlife benefits, only detriments. Where your efforts to feed your family from the land result in punishment and persecution. And the corollary is also obvious - we who enjoy an interest in wildlife, abundant public lands, and have a stable food supply are afforded the luxury of arguing about a lion's death in the context of it being a heinous crime or as a life-changing resource that helps economies. For those not granted a vested interest in wildlife, for those with no public lands on which to secure food, the luxury of that argument is not afforded.
http://www.startribune.com/life-in-...lack-of-concern-for-cecil-the-hero/320534192/
Easy to bitch about things in this country, regardless of what side of the Cecil discussion you come from. Yet, we live in such a state of opulence compared to those most impacted by lions and other African wildlife, that Americans and Europeans cannot see the ridiculousness of the way they have framed this debate.
The author asks forgiveness for lack of concern over Cecil. I forgive the Zimbabwe locals for their lack of concern over Cecil. A lack of concern I also share. Seeing how many hunters are pissing all over themselves on this topic makes me shake my head, causing me to wish they demonstrated the same concern on topics related to our own native species, funding of our agencies, protecting our public lands from politicians, and securing more access.
My prayer tonight will be one of thanks that I live in the hinterlands of America, not the hinterlands of Zimbabwe. A good reminder of just how lucky I am to live in this country and enjoy all it has to offer; and why I should do what I can to keep it that way.
D
Deleted member 16864
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To hell with Zimbabwe and pinko yuppie scum.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-132504/Zimbabwe-white-farmers-fight-flee.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-132504/Zimbabwe-white-farmers-fight-flee.html
Point Creep
Well-known member
D
Deleted member 16864
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Most of them would be willing to eat their neighbors within a week if the grocery stores were ever emptied out.
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.280 Remington
New member
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- Aug 21, 2012
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- 282
I fail to see how killing Cecil for a mount and having someone else kill an animal for its leather are any different. I wonder how many screaming for Cecil own something made of leather?
whiskeydog
Active member
bigskyblueman
Member
The havoc we hunters wreak has no bounds. http://www.theonion.com/graphic/worlds-22000-polar-bears-forced-share-last-remaini-50930
teamhoyt
Well-known member
Not that I really care but aren't a fair number of lions hunted in Africa pen raised and released for a hunt? Sounds fun:confused
bobbydean
Well-known member
I do not see much hunting in Zimbazwee (sp) in the next few years, Will the hunting revenue in a few years be replaced with tourist dollars? Do not know the respective dollars spent! The charity for lion conservation is definitely a win. But, I think the dollar loss will effect this country and all African countries. The cash cow may have been killed with all this publicity.
Anyone know the dollar spent tourist versus hunter!
Anyone know the dollar spent tourist versus hunter!
.280 Remington
New member
- Joined
- Aug 21, 2012
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I don't know the exact numbers, but I think overall, tourist dollars are more. Per capita might be another story. As long as the Zim gov't doesn't cave, things will go back to normal within a few months.
This whole thing makes me wish I were older (and had more money). I'd plunk down the $$$ for a lion and a few of the other critters I've always wanted to hunt now because its hard to say where the future will go.
noharleyyet
Well-known member
"They'll have to pry my leather seats from my cold dead butt."
-Charleton Heston
-Charleton Heston
RobG
Well-known member
Wes Mantooth
Well-known member
Here is another interesting viewpoint from a Zimbabwean national attending university in the US that is very much like the link Big Fin posted.
It is thought-provoking to hear this perspective from someone who has truly lived there, understands the challenges and their deep-rooted cultural viewpoints on wildlife in Africa. I have no desire to shoot an African lion (mountain lion, different story...) and at the end of the day, this is a poaching crime that should be handled as such.
And the uproar over this I feel would be zero if this were a story about "Doug, the 44" Cape Buffalo" that was lured out of the same park and shot by Dr. Root Canal.
It is thought-provoking to hear this perspective from someone who has truly lived there, understands the challenges and their deep-rooted cultural viewpoints on wildlife in Africa. I have no desire to shoot an African lion (mountain lion, different story...) and at the end of the day, this is a poaching crime that should be handled as such.
And the uproar over this I feel would be zero if this were a story about "Doug, the 44" Cape Buffalo" that was lured out of the same park and shot by Dr. Root Canal.
Gerald Martin
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- 9,639
So are you here to tell us that buffalo aren't endangered?:W:
Bambistew
Well-known member
Great... I'm sitting on about $50,000,000 Zim and nothing to spend it on.
Tourist dollars greater than hunting? Toss up, IMO, used to be hunting far and away outweighed tourism, but that was before the great white purge, black on white genocide, and stripping all white property owners of their land. Lets not let the media paint the locals and government as a bunch of innocent creatures. Zim is a one of the biggest corrupt shit holes in all of Africa. Their game management is a direct result of the corruption, greed, and lack of foresight. The poaching by locals has pretty much wiped out the game outside of the parks, and now on the parks. Once the animals are gone, the few tourists who go to see them will also be gone. I would not be surprised in the least if the parks where opened to locals for hunting in the next 10 years.
I hunted a couple times on the Zim border in RSA, the number of snares you could find in an afternoon was sickening. A week later you could find them back in the same spots.
Hunting or no hunting, it doesn't matter. Shooting poachers, doesn't work...Hungry, unemployed, uneducated people will do what they have to do to survive and those "free" animals lose in the end.
There is no changing the African mentality. We can armchair quarterback all we want, but there is really no comparison to of African culture to Western culture. They aren't going to change their laws, no one follows them anyway. Telling a few hunters they can't bring trophies back, or banning hunting will do nothing to save the animals.
Tourist dollars greater than hunting? Toss up, IMO, used to be hunting far and away outweighed tourism, but that was before the great white purge, black on white genocide, and stripping all white property owners of their land. Lets not let the media paint the locals and government as a bunch of innocent creatures. Zim is a one of the biggest corrupt shit holes in all of Africa. Their game management is a direct result of the corruption, greed, and lack of foresight. The poaching by locals has pretty much wiped out the game outside of the parks, and now on the parks. Once the animals are gone, the few tourists who go to see them will also be gone. I would not be surprised in the least if the parks where opened to locals for hunting in the next 10 years.
I hunted a couple times on the Zim border in RSA, the number of snares you could find in an afternoon was sickening. A week later you could find them back in the same spots.
Hunting or no hunting, it doesn't matter. Shooting poachers, doesn't work...Hungry, unemployed, uneducated people will do what they have to do to survive and those "free" animals lose in the end.
There is no changing the African mentality. We can armchair quarterback all we want, but there is really no comparison to of African culture to Western culture. They aren't going to change their laws, no one follows them anyway. Telling a few hunters they can't bring trophies back, or banning hunting will do nothing to save the animals.
whiskeydog
Active member
Is it really poaching? I have zero first, second, third hand knowledge, etc as to the truth in anything written below. I had seen this posted on FB and a few other websites. IF it's true, it definitely paints a different picture of the story... Basically, it contradicts the reports of how the lion was "lured" out of the park and what was done with the collar after he was shot.
once again...this was not sent to me by anyone I know...just something I cut/pasted. could be total bogus...
**********************************************************
this email sent by my cousin living in South Afica regarding an article in the newspaper. Interesting reading if you can be bothered to read it all
For everyone that is/was "concerned" about the lion situation that has been blown out of proportion by social media. Read up. This is an email that my parents sent me. (They are in Africa right now).
Many of you have read or heard the news of the collared lion that has been shot here in Africa. Greg and I are in Zimbabwe, hunting with clients, at the camp of the very man that is being accused of "slaughtering a protected lion".
I would just like to clarify a few facts. Firstly, yes, the lion was collared but that does not mean protected the hunting concession we are on borders the park-- no fences, no gates, no wires. These animals are free to roam and cross into the areas surrounding the park at will. It is a given that when any animal is out of the designated boundaries of the park and in a hunting concession, it is fair game. Collared animals are shot by hunters once in a while and the law states that nothing has been done illegally, just that the collar is to be returned to the National Parks office.
Secondly, this lion was not lured out of the park by guts being dragged or calls being made. There was an elephant carcass, that died of natural causes, 2 1/2 km out of the parks boundary. The Professional Hunter (PH) and his hunter had seen a lion on the carcass so set up a blind to hunt that evening. The collared lion was the one that came in. No one realized the animal was collared until after it was harvested. The collar was returned to Parks, as is the procedure. It is unfortunate that this lion is a frequently photographed one in the parks as I believe that is why it has made national news. That, and the fact that it has a name..... Cecil.
Theo Bronkhorst has been threatened and dragged over the coals on this one. His family is being harassed and the Facebook comments have been horrendous. One in particular. "let me guess...this fed a village".
Here's where I'd like to explain something. Feeding the village is a phrase that is always taken in the literal sense. Yes, the meat of any animal is shared with the people but it's more than that. Here's how it works.
Every hunting concession has a native game scout appointed. This scout must accompany the PH and his hunters to be sure that nothing is shot that is not on quota.....quota meaning that only so many of one species can be taken during the year. This is recorded very officially in a ledger. Every animal has a trophy fee. This is divided up to the outfitter, the village and the government. The village gets their share of the meat. Now this is where Theo makes a difference. With the money, he has helped the people dig wells, pipe water and supplied tanks to their houses so they don't have to walk long distances to carry it. They have larger gardens now because of it, not to mention running water. He has built schools. He's helped put in solar panels so they have power. I have seen satellite dishes on some homes so I know they have tv. It is all this that is included in the phrase ' feed the village'.
I believe so many people do not understand hunting. They only see killing. Without hunting there is no conservation. Theo and his family are conservationists. They are not poachers. Everything done in the taking of this lion was done with professionalism. The hunter was legally licensed, the outfitter/PH, Theo, was licensed to legally hunt in that area.
It is disgusting to me how there is so much to-do about this one lion but nothing is said about the man who was killed just 2 nights ago by an elephant in the village of the scout who rides in the truck with us everyday. A human life was taken and it is not mentioned. We should be more concerned about Masugo and his family than Cecil. It is unfair that no one feels sorry for Masugo....nor for the hunter and PH that have been falsely accused of a crime they did not commit.
Please share this with as many people as you can so the real story also gets revealed. It surprises us that organizations like Dallas Club and Safari Club International (SCI), who's slogan is 'first for hunters', have not become involved to investigate and stand behind a fellow hunter. Let us all, as hunters, stand together.
once again...this was not sent to me by anyone I know...just something I cut/pasted. could be total bogus...
**********************************************************
this email sent by my cousin living in South Afica regarding an article in the newspaper. Interesting reading if you can be bothered to read it all
For everyone that is/was "concerned" about the lion situation that has been blown out of proportion by social media. Read up. This is an email that my parents sent me. (They are in Africa right now).
Many of you have read or heard the news of the collared lion that has been shot here in Africa. Greg and I are in Zimbabwe, hunting with clients, at the camp of the very man that is being accused of "slaughtering a protected lion".
I would just like to clarify a few facts. Firstly, yes, the lion was collared but that does not mean protected the hunting concession we are on borders the park-- no fences, no gates, no wires. These animals are free to roam and cross into the areas surrounding the park at will. It is a given that when any animal is out of the designated boundaries of the park and in a hunting concession, it is fair game. Collared animals are shot by hunters once in a while and the law states that nothing has been done illegally, just that the collar is to be returned to the National Parks office.
Secondly, this lion was not lured out of the park by guts being dragged or calls being made. There was an elephant carcass, that died of natural causes, 2 1/2 km out of the parks boundary. The Professional Hunter (PH) and his hunter had seen a lion on the carcass so set up a blind to hunt that evening. The collared lion was the one that came in. No one realized the animal was collared until after it was harvested. The collar was returned to Parks, as is the procedure. It is unfortunate that this lion is a frequently photographed one in the parks as I believe that is why it has made national news. That, and the fact that it has a name..... Cecil.
Theo Bronkhorst has been threatened and dragged over the coals on this one. His family is being harassed and the Facebook comments have been horrendous. One in particular. "let me guess...this fed a village".
Here's where I'd like to explain something. Feeding the village is a phrase that is always taken in the literal sense. Yes, the meat of any animal is shared with the people but it's more than that. Here's how it works.
Every hunting concession has a native game scout appointed. This scout must accompany the PH and his hunters to be sure that nothing is shot that is not on quota.....quota meaning that only so many of one species can be taken during the year. This is recorded very officially in a ledger. Every animal has a trophy fee. This is divided up to the outfitter, the village and the government. The village gets their share of the meat. Now this is where Theo makes a difference. With the money, he has helped the people dig wells, pipe water and supplied tanks to their houses so they don't have to walk long distances to carry it. They have larger gardens now because of it, not to mention running water. He has built schools. He's helped put in solar panels so they have power. I have seen satellite dishes on some homes so I know they have tv. It is all this that is included in the phrase ' feed the village'.
I believe so many people do not understand hunting. They only see killing. Without hunting there is no conservation. Theo and his family are conservationists. They are not poachers. Everything done in the taking of this lion was done with professionalism. The hunter was legally licensed, the outfitter/PH, Theo, was licensed to legally hunt in that area.
It is disgusting to me how there is so much to-do about this one lion but nothing is said about the man who was killed just 2 nights ago by an elephant in the village of the scout who rides in the truck with us everyday. A human life was taken and it is not mentioned. We should be more concerned about Masugo and his family than Cecil. It is unfair that no one feels sorry for Masugo....nor for the hunter and PH that have been falsely accused of a crime they did not commit.
Please share this with as many people as you can so the real story also gets revealed. It surprises us that organizations like Dallas Club and Safari Club International (SCI), who's slogan is 'first for hunters', have not become involved to investigate and stand behind a fellow hunter. Let us all, as hunters, stand together.
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