Bozeman: is it really that bad anymore?

[Big Fin]

The alternative to high density housing is sprawl in to undeveloped land (wildlife habitat).

True. And that is why the Master Plan has such for Bozeman. My point is we should follow the Master Plan and fill in the areas as planned, rather than grant waivers to anyone who asks. The Master Plan has those high density areas. Those HD areas just cost more for the developer, so they buy cheaper land and then try to get the zoning changed.

 

[Hem]

There were some freaks in Bozeman a few days ago, but they seemed to mostly have disappeared.

 

[Southern Elk]

I remember one of the biggest WTF moments for me around bozeman area growth was maybe 20 years back while archery hunting for elk in spanish peaks around high or rock lakes. I hadn't seen a person, a track, or sign of a person for a couple days. This was before the local trail running craze. I hiked up to the divide and looked into upper Jack Creek. I pulled out my spotter and could literally see guys pounding nails and bulldozing in roads, building giant mansions. One of the nicest places in MT, already ruined by that point, and it's a lot worse now.

Big Sky is much worse than Bozeman in my opinion. As @Nameless Range called it, a cancer on the Madison Range.

 

[Deleted member 52937]

If I were to move to Bozeman now and had never experienced what it was like 13 years ago I’d think it was an awesome place. It WAS an amazing place though even just 10 years ago. I’ve never experienced the hay days of Montana hunting and am kind of glad I never did because to me it still beats sitting stands in the Midwest waiting for a buck to walk by. I’m amazed at how many people live here that don’t really enjoy recreating. If I didn’t really like the outdoors I wouldn’t put up with the cost of this town.

 

[mdhunter]

Everyone- I hate to say it but it’s everywhere because of “everyone”.

I grew up in rural Maryland very near the coast and beaches. You know how long it took people to figure out that I was living somewhere special? Not very long with the internet to show the masses and modern highways built to fast track the millions from Washington DC, Baltimore, Philadelphia etc., that just wanted a taste of the quiet life on the weekends. Unfortunately it’s not as quiet as I remember as a kid.

I agree with much that has been written on this thread including the affordable housing comments. Unfortunately for some of the east coast beaches, as in Bozeman, the genie is out of the bottle. There is enough money in this country that will people can now afford to live just about anywhere special. I guess the secrets just aren't a secret anymore.

 

[Deleted member 48080]

True. And that is why the Master Plan has such for Bozeman. My point is we should follow the Master Plan and fill in the areas as planned, rather than grant waivers to anyone who asks. The Master Plan has those high density areas. Those HD areas just cost more for the developer, so they buy cheaper land and then try to get the zoning changed.

That land will also be developed, if it hasn't been already.

The housing situation has changed drastically in the last 20 years in Montana. We can't stop people from moving to Montana, it just won't happen.

Every extra housing unit that's able to be shoehorned into an urban area is one less housing unit being developed elsewhere in the area.

The foothills of the Bridgers being developed and causing a decline in mule deer has been brought up many times on here. If it comes down to re-zoning some urban infill next to the stadium vs. having another sprawling subdivion North of town, I'm going to side with the city on re-zoning.

The cities of Montana are going to hell in a hurry, no doubt. But having some flexibility on stuff like this might buy some time to get some more collar studies done or conservation easements in place before we look like the Front Range of Colorado.

That's just my opinion.

 

[Irishman]

I'm looking out the window of my house here in Kalispell. I see the new houses, the new apartments, and the school, all in what used to be farmland when I moved in. Thinking about how things used to be, is just a depressing exercise. There are still many great places in Montana to get away from it all, even while living around Bozeman or Kalispell.

 

[canadiantuxedo]

I was born and raised in Bozeman and still live here. Same with my Dad. Same with his Mom until she passed. It is the best place on earth. If the influx of people and congestion bothers you, wake up earlier. It is honestly that simple.

 

[mtmuley]

The people moving here, even ones from 30 plus years ago didn't see Montana like some of us did. mtmuley

 

[Southern Elk]

Thank God for public land. We all need to fight to protect it.

 

[RobertD]

Dive bars??
That’s a whole conversation there.
Dive bars used to be places filled with cigarette smoke, a jukebox and a shitty pool table. Places that you had to take a shower when you got home to get the smell off of you. Dollar bills stapled to the ceiling and some old posters and booze sings on the wall and pull tabs. A funky deer head or jackalope on the wall. A Place you could walk in with grease on your hands or smelling like form oil or deer blood under your fingernails and no one looked down their nose. Maybe a dog or two running around. The good ones had some kinda fried food if you were lucky.

Everything now is shiny. Gotta take a shower and get dressed up before you grab a beer now.

Not trying to hijack thread.
Dive bars are rare now.
Oughta start an Ode to the dive bar thread. Haha

"If a bar's crowded, you know immediately it's no good because there are never enough people who know a good bar from a bad bar to cause a crowd." - the late, great Harry Crews

 

[Hem]

The people moving here, even ones from 30 plus years ago didn't see Montana like some of us did. mtmuley

I first came to Montana in 1981. Fished the Madison and surrounding area for two weeks. There was no one around on the rivers...in August. Good memory.

 

[Gerald Martin]

Where I lived in Sander Co. for 18 years is a poster child of what happens without zoning.

The entire Clark Fork valley floor is experiencing a transformation into 5-20 acre ranchettes as folks want their slice of Montana. I would much rather see interior areas close to towns and cities being built up and filled in than larger properties being bought and split apart.

I just did a Zillow search for rentals in that area. There was a single rental available for $1275 per month for a 2bed/2bath 950 square foot house in Thompson Falls.

I haven’t been in Bozeman long enough to appreciate the changes that others have complained about but from my experience and what our family is looking for I like the area.

Two hour one way drives for good doctors, orthodontists and grocery stores are overrated, IMO.

Land and housing is currently ridiculous in Gallatin County. However, when you factor in lower wages and higher living cost and lack of employment opportunities it brings the difficulty to thrive/opportunity equation into a different perspective.

I think it all depends on what you are looking for and what your goals are.

There were plenty of dive bars and funky, weird characters in that part of MT. There was also lots of meth abuse, white supremacy, and crime that accompanies poverty.

It was much easier to access outdoor activities with less competition in that area but most other aspects of living are more easily accessible.

Will my kids be able to afford living here when they leave home? I can’t answer that for sure but I think it’s going to be easier for them to own a home in a community where a duel income blue collar family can easily earn over 100k to pay for a 500k home than it is to live in a community where a duel income blue collar family is limited to 65-$80K per year and is trying to pay off a $350K home.

 

[Southern Elk]

I first came to Montana in 1981. Fished the Madison and surrounding area for two weeks. There was no one around on the rivers...in August. Good memory.

Pre - A River Runs Through It.

 

[mtmuley]

I first came to Montana in 1981. Fished the Madison and surrounding area for two weeks. There was no one around on the rivers...in August. Good memory.

We used to drag race on Highway 93 after drinking beer under the bridge West of Stevensville. mtmuley

 

[Watts307]

You guys are making me worried, we cannot lose Montana lol

Makes me nervous especially just turning 30 and engaged. Looking for places to put roots down and trying to figure out how to make a living with theses crazy prices. Seems like the world is closing in on everyone.

Greed and men in suits will be the destruction of everything wholesome.

 

[Watts307]

When Scheels finally stops selling Dutton Ranch apparel & Yellowstone belt buckles, we’ll finally be on a path to better days. Lol.

On a serious note, it’ll be interesting to see how this year plays out with a shrinking money supply. It’s pretty obvious this states housing market is inflated. Never been a better time to be smart with your $

They sell that crap here in Wyoming at Murdoch's too lol

 

[corndog1]

A better place than most to raise kids.

 

[Deleted member 52937]

As long as our hunters don’t start acting like Utah hunters I’ll stick around. Once we start hearing real estate/hunting podcasts I’m going to cut bait and start looking at wyoming

 

[Big Fin]

Even with my frustrations of City and County leaders continually exempting and modifying the Master Plan and contributing to the rapid pace of this change, I have concluded that of all the places I travel, my later-in-life-latitude to live anywhere I want still has not been struck by any of the other outdoor enclaves I travel to.

Just how embedded Mrs. Fin and I feel in the community and the state. Pretty sure we'll die and be buried in Montana.