Bow hunting

[BWALKER77]

Former wildlife commissioners share unusual elk hunting tales

The allure of elk hunting, and its difficulties, often create some unusual tales.

billingsgazette.com

 

[BuzzH]

Interesting article, I know Tim fairly well, fished salmon with him on the Clearwater quite a bit.

This bull my Dad shot also had about 14 inches of arrow and a broadhead laying in the backstrap:

No question a frontal shot that just hit high and off to the side.

This bull was also bugling and feeding like no big deal when Dad shot it. The arrow had also started to calcify a bit. Much like the bull Tim shot, hard to imagine someone would take such a low percentage shot.

I think in general, there is one hell of a wounding problem across the board, bird hunters, archery hunters, rifle hunters all of it.

I also think it would be a good idea if people took a bit more time to understand shot angles and be honest with themselves and the conditions on when and when not to pull the trigger.

Another big problem I've seen consistently, that is way down-played is the amount of poaching that goes on. I've found .22 slugs in the necks of 3 deer, including the buck I killed in Montana this year.

Was skinning the neck on him and found this, just under the hide, partially enclosed in tissue:

The thing that I thought about is that this deer was 3.5-4 miles behind locked gates in any direction. Which leaves me wondering how much of this crap goes on where its easy to just plug a deer in the neck with a .22, hoist it into the back of the truck, and leave the scene.

I think I'm like a lot of others that really don't want to know just how much game is poached and lost by being wounded, but its no doubt a huge problem and significant.

The even tougher thing is how do you correct it?

 

[F250]

I worked many years as a covert operative in several states and provinces. One group I was assigned to infiltrate, were whitetail deer poachers (and thieves, drug dealers, etc.). Their preferred method of poaching, was to spotlight deer, and gut shoot them with a .22 magnum. Their twisted theory was : The .22 mag was not too loud when fired. The gut shot deer would run into the woods out of the field so no passerby would see it. So, they would just shoot and immediately run. Then, during the day, under the guise of hunting small game, they would look for the deer just inside the woods. There are some sick ones out there

 

[Bowhunter999]

“The even tougher thing is, how do you correct it ?”

Hunting is no different than any other activity. It draws it’s participants from the general public, and we all know that that is made up of a general mix of people. Most good, but unfortunately also characters who just do not fit well into society ! Also our sport is infiltrated with those who really are not hunters per se, are only involved to make money poaching, or are just simply corrupt in the first place. Of course, the people who are generally opposed to the word “hunter”, let alone the actual act of hunting, do not differentiate between the good and the ‘ugly’, all are thrown into one pile !! There is criminal activity in every aspect of human happenings, hunting being no different.

Many of the hunting offenses are not punished strong enough to keep violators at bay, they thinking the risks are worth the crime in relation to fines. We very seldom hear of violators spending time in jail. GW’s are stretched pretty thin across our vast country and it is almost impossible to be on site directly. Help must come from the general public in reporting violators, but now days, many people do not wish to become involved. So, “how do you correct it” ? It has been a problem for a long time, and it does not appear to be getting any better. And our justice system is not becoming more strict, and thus the motivation for crime is not lessened !

 

[dirtclod Az.]

The first Javelina I harvested some 40 yrs, ago
has two .22 rounds and a small number of shotgun
pellets in his skull. makes for a cool euro mount.

 

[Irrelevant]

I also think it would be a good idea if people took a bit more time to understand shot angles and be honest with themselves and the conditions on when and when not to pull the trigger.

The even tougher thing is how do you correct it?

I don't disagree with anything your saying. But for the non poachers I can see where the shear lack of game, or legal quarry drives people to take poor shots. If you've hunted elk in WA for 6 years and have never seen a legal bull, it's going to make it extra difficult to pass up a questionable shot that 7th year. The same could apply to areas will low tag availability. If you finally drew an elk tag after 12 years it may be more difficult to show restraint on a questionable shot you've been waiting over a decade for.
There is also the simple lust for the animal driving hunters poor choices.
I don't have any solutions for these problems.

 

[BuzzH]

I think one solution is to let people know its ok to come up short even with a tag you've waited 12 years to draw.

 

[TheTone]

My dads Idaho moose from 2003? had a 22 bullet in its butt and I’ve seen more than a few harvested bulls with bullet holes in the middle of a palm.

 

[406LIFE]

I think in general, there is one hell of a wounding problem across the board, bird hunters, archery hunters, rifle hunters all of it.

I also think it would be a good idea if people took a bit more time to understand shot angles and be honest with themselves and the conditions on when and when not to pull the trigger.

Both are good points. Just some cursory study of wounding loss should be enough to make hunters think more about what shots they do take. One study out of the Madison Valley on archery elk estimated 50% of animals hit were not recovered. One conversation I had with a biologist several years ago told me he basically doubled the hunting harvest as actual to accommodate for hunting loss. Then he said double that again for poaching.

 

[Irrelevant]

Both are good points. Just some cursory study of wounding loss should be enough to make hunters think more about what shots they do take. One study out of the Madison Valley on archery elk estimated 50% of animals hit were not recovered. One conversation I had with a biologist several years ago told me he basically doubled the hunting harvest as actual to accommodate for hunting loss. Then he said double that again for poaching.

Ok, but you have unit with 30% harvest success, so 120% of the elk are being killed every year?

 

[406LIFE]

Ok, but you have unit with 30% harvest success, so 120% of the elk are being killed every year?

Of course its not 120%. Its all estimates and statistics for the areas they were responsible for.

 

[BuzzH]

Ok, but you have unit with 30% harvest success, so 120% of the elk are being killed every year?

You have to look at the total number of elk and the total number of tags issued. If you have a unit with say 1000 elk, there may only be 200 tags issued. Of those, 30% would be successful...so 60 elk harvested. Another 60 poached and another 60 lost to wounding. Total of 180 elk elk killed each year from the 1000.

Is that believable? Yes, IMO, it is.

 

[Fire_9]

I have two gripes with the article.

#1- the immediate assumption that someone took a 70, 80, or 90 yard shot. Very well could have been the guy that isn’t proficient at 30 yards but everyone just loves to jump on the “bash the long range guys” train

#2- His comment about guys using traditional equipment being “real hunters”. I get tired of traditional guys automatically getting a pass as “real hunters”. After hanging out in the traditional community for the 5 years or so, I’ve come to the realization that many of them are lucky more states don’t have a proficiency test....

 

[Irrelevant]

You have to look at the total number of elk and the total number of tags issued. If you have a unit with say 1000 elk, there may only be 200 tags issued. Of those, 30% would be successful...so 60 elk harvested. Another 60 poached and another 60 lost to wounding. Total of 180 elk elk killed each year from the 1000.

Is that believable? Yes, IMO, it is.

Under those #s I agree, sounds believable.

I was thinking of one unit where there is a 29.2% success rate that equates to 364 elk. Double that you get 728, do it again and you're talking about +1400 from a single unit. Is that possible? Maybe, but I'd be skeptical.

 

[AvidIndoorsman]

Former wildlife commissioners share unusual elk hunting tales

The allure of elk hunting, and its difficulties, often create some unusual tales.

billingsgazette.com

Interesting read.

Kinda funny I've only killed a handful of elk, yet I've killed one with an arrow stuck in it, one died in a river, and one died on a hill so steep I had to tie it off to a tree.

 

[Jape]

Oh, the tales animals could tell about hunters if they could talk.

If the numbers Buzz suggested above are correct, that would certainly be depressing indeed. Education is the only way I see to improve the situation. I would like to see that more often in hunting shows. For example, show a hunter with an pass on a questionable shot, or show some reconciliation after a poor shot. I recall a gohunt video a few years ago where they were hunting for muleys in Wyoming. One of the hunters took an archery shot at running deer and I think he was still 60-70 yards away. He missed but it would have been nice to hear him acknowledge the lack of judgment in the video.

 

[AvidIndoorsman]

I recall a video ...

 

[Deleted member 18333]

I would assume the average archery hunter that hits but does not recover an animal would be far more likely to call their tag filled than the average rifle hunter would given that the the archer has significantly higher knowledge that they hit the animal than the rifle hunter does. This would need to be factored into the equation on excess kill. The one archery kill that I screwed up on, I cut my tag the evening I hit the bull but did not find until the next day. I assumed at the hit I would never find this bull but it was clear I hit him. Coincidently he had a bullet lodged in his backstrap. I assume that hunter never even knew they hit the bull.

 

[AggieHunter]

As far as bulls with injuries from hunters I have heard from multiple people about finding arrows in elk as well as 30 cal bullets that were stopped by the shoulder so it's important to remember how tough they are no matter what weapon you use.

 

[brownbear932008]

I would assume the average archery hunter that hits but does not recover an animal would be far more likely to call their tag filled than the average rifle hunter would given that the the archer has significantly higher knowledge that they hit the animal than the rifle hunter does. This would need to be factored into the equation on excess kill. The one archery kill that I screwed up on, I cut my tag the evening I hit the bull but did not find until the next day. I assumed at the hit I would never find this bull but it was clear I hit him. Coincidently he had a bullet lodged in his backstrap. I assume that hunter never even knew they hit the bull.

Man I gotta say this is giving people way to much credit my friend. I'd go the opposite way and say flip that scenario especially and sadly once you throw the fact that some have thousands wrapped up in that hunt. I'm gonna say 9 of 10 keep hunting hoping to take something else home after losing one. I've notched tags on lost animals one on a hunt I waited 11 years on. I do not think or believe this is the norm with the average Joe though. I believe more on this forum would be more likely to notch that tag on a lost animal but I feel and hope most of us have a higher level of ethics.

I wish it were more common but I hear of countless lost animals every year during the season and guys still out trying to fill that tag. I know of one young hunter this year that lost 2 Whitetails and a bear while bowhunting. Needless to say I will be working a lot with him this summer on skills. He is very young and has a father not a bit interested in hunting. So he made a lot of mistakes this year that need corrected hopefully he gets more proficient next fall. I think his biggest flaws are taking marginal shots and tracking to soon.