Biologist wants to increase doe harvest in region 3 units - Help!

[MTMOOSE]

I don't post on here very often, but I wanted to spread the word on a proposed change to mule deer doe tags in a few Region 3 units for the upcoming season in hopes that you all will send a message to Biologist Adam Grove. With the state of our mule deer population trends I am shocked that he is wanting to increase the doe harvest in these units by 50 to 75%. The attached document shows the populations estimates by region and as you can see the statewide populations are not trending well at all. I understand that Region 3 has stayed fairly level compared to other Regions, but how does that justify a 50 to 75% increase in the harvest? If this goes through, Region 3 will be the next population to tank. Please consider sending a message to Biologist Adam Grove at [email protected] . Leave the does alone and let them reproduce! There is enough opportunity in MT already, please think about the resource.

2. From Adam Grove:
I'm looking at making the following potential antlerless mule deer B-license quota changes for the 2025 season:

• 390-01 - Increase from the current 50 to 75
• 391-02 - Increase from the current 100 to 175
• 392-01 - Increase from the current 50 to 75

 

[HighWildFree]

An estimated population of 40,000 mule deer region wide and you're worried about an extra 175 does?

 

[MTMOOSE]

Your mindset is the problem with the current state of our mule deer populations in the state. These are three small units in Region 3, I can only guess what they are recommending in the other units.

 

[atlas]

I hardly see deer where I hunt in region 3 as it is. Good thing I'm not deer hunting down there.

 

[Forkyfinder]

R3 pop history (gray) going a little further back.

Montana's mule deer population, harvest success, and hunter trends revealed // GOHUNT. The Hunting Company

If you're thinking of hunting Montana for mule deer, this giant data story is a must read to help you narrow down where to hunt! Access region by region breakdowns that take a look at harvest, residency and much, much more

www.gohunt.com

 

[Stone_Ice_1]

They definitely should not be INCREASING doe harvest in these districts, if anything they should be decreasing them (optimally to 0 for a few years). The deer numbers for these districts are way down historically and anybody that has spent time in these districts for many years knows this.

 

[brockel]

Must have lost a bet with the region 7 biologists

 

[rjthehunter]

Idk, where I hunted in region 3 last year every buck I saw had between 2 and 12 does with him. Not one of the 3 mentioned units, but an increase of 125 is pretty miniscule.

What's their population objective for Region 3? Better yet, what's their population objective for each unit?

 

[idelkslayer]

I fail to see the problem. The population is pretty stable. You can see the population peak in 2016-17 followed by the winter kill that decreased the population, but it has been steady since. Harvesting a few more does now could improve body condition and the survivability of the remaining does. Killing a few now may be what's needed to ensure longer term health for the herd and prevent larger winterkills.

Was any justification given with the proposal? Did the biologist cite anything like recent fawn weights or doe body fat ratios? There is a time an place for increased doe harvest, a knee-jerk rejection of all doe hunting doesn't help.

 

[brockel]

I fail to see the problem. The population is pretty stable. You can see the population peak in 2016-17 followed by the winter kill that decreased the population, but it has been steady since. Harvesting a few more does now could improve body condition and the survivability of the remaining does. Killing a few now may be what's needed to ensure longer term health for the herd and prevent larger winterkills.

Was any justification given with the proposal? Did the biologist cite anything like recent fawn weights or doe body fat ratios? There is a time an place for increased doe harvest, a knee-jerk rejection of all doe hunting doesn't help.

If it’s stable why kill more? One of Montanas problems. We see a stable population or a slight up tick and we think we need to knock them back down

 

[JEL]

If it’s stable why kill more? One of Montanas problems. We see a stable population or a slight up tick and we think we need to knock them back down

This. I don’t know why we are killing MD does anywhere in MT given the overall statewide decline.

 

[Forkyfinder]

Idk, where I hunted in region 3 last year every buck I saw had between 2 and 12 does with him. Not one of the 3 mentioned units, but an increase of 125 is pretty miniscule.

What's their population objective for Region 3? Better yet, what's their population objective for each unit?

Adaptive Harvest Management management plan:

https://fwp.mt.gov/binaries/content/assets/fwp/conservation/deer/mule-deer-ahm-plan-final_2021.pdf

They dont have a defined objective, just LTA.

 

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[rjthehunter]

Adaptive Harvest Management management plan:

https://fwp.mt.gov/binaries/content/assets/fwp/conservation/deer/mule-deer-ahm-plan-final_2021.pdf

They dont have a defined objective, just LTA.

Gotcha.

Regardless, it's an increase of 125 doe harvests. That's a really small number when the graph shows about 45k mule deer in region 3. 0.28% of the population to be exact.

The number of doe harvests is small, but percentage wise it's 25%-75% increases for these units, which makes it seem more substantial.

Can anyone comment who was hunting these units last year? Are there does around?

 

[warmer]

View attachment 371148

Must be a new guy, not alot of CAPS in that one.

 

[Stone_Ice_1]

There's 2 big problems with using the Region 3 numbers for this. One, this is 3 districts, not all of region 3. These 3 districts have been ravaged by fire in the last 20 years. The population of both elk and deer is down from before that time. The 2nd big problem is assuming the FWP data is right. I trust my observations in the field more than I do the FWP data. Mandatory reporting could change this but I don't see that passing on Montana anytime soon.

 

[rjthehunter]

There's 2 big problems with using the Region 3 numbers for this. One, this is 3 districts, not all of region 3. These 3 districts have been ravaged by fire in the last 20 years. The population of both elk and deer is down from before that time. The 2nd big problem is assuming the FWP data is right. I trust my observations in the field more than I do the FWP data. Mandatory reporting could change this but I don't see that passing on Montana anytime soon.

You're close to the units, have you spent any time in them this last year? What are your observations?

 

[HighWildFree]

Your mindset is the problem with the current state of our mule deer populations in the state. These are three small units in Region 3, I can only guess what they are recommending in the other units

Honestly, if you really believe that an 75 doe tags in 390 are going to tank the population then you might as well kill them all because a deer herd that can't handle that mortality is doomed with or without hunting.

Does the CA even shoot mule deer does?

 

[cgasner1]

Must have lost a bet with the region 7 biologists

They should transplant them into 7 so they can die a traditional death

 

[Stone_Ice_1]

You're close to the units, have you spent any time in them this last year? What are your observations?

Not last year, but I have for each of the 15 years before that. I have talked to folks that hunted it before then. Typical Montana, there is not many deer on the public land, the private has some but the area should hold a lot more deer.