Caribou Gear Tarp

FWP adjusts mule deer quotas in response to spring surveys

Ben we have been here before. In 2012 there was a room full of hunters in miles city pleading with fwp to do something to help our deer and antelope. 2 years later they finally did. Before numbers recovered they were issuing 11k doe tags. Numbers on public never came back. I’m fairly new to the game but this cycle has been happening long before I started paying attention. It will be interesting what things look like in 5 years, I know what my bet is.

"I guess it comes down to a simple choice, really. Get busy living, or get busy dying." Andy Dufresne, Shawshank Redemption.

This isn't a one and done effort, game management. It's up to the people to keep change moving in the direction they want. Inertia is the normal state of government. When they do start moving, you have to lean in double in order to keep them from simply resting on the flat spot from the last few years.
 
"I guess it comes down to a simple choice, really. Get busy living, or get busy dying." Andy Dufresne, Shawshank Redemption.

This isn't a one and done effort, game management. It's up to the people to keep change moving in the direction they want. Inertia is the normal state of government. When they do start moving, you have to lean in double in order to keep them from simply resting on the flat spot from the last few years.
I get what you are saying, North Dakota, Wyoming, and Idaho all cut deer tags. When they had their meetings they should have been telling us that it is going to suck but deer numbers are down and we are going to have to make some cuts. Instead they doubled down on their management and told us they couldn’t be doing a better job than they are now. We’ve been here before and things are looking good. All the same BS I’ve heard for the last 15 years. The public shouldn’t be asking them to manage the resource that is their job.
 
I get what you are saying, North Dakota, Wyoming, and Idaho all cut deer tags. When they had their meetings they should have been telling us that it is going to suck but deer numbers are down and we are going to have to make some cuts. Instead they doubled down on their management and told us they couldn’t be doing a better job than they are now. We’ve been here before and things are looking good. All the same BS I’ve heard for the last 15 years. The public shouldn’t be asking them to manage the resource that is their job.

I would respectfully disagree here. I don't think that government by the agency is a good thing, personally. The entirety of the western wildlife management system is predicated upon public involvement. It's what our grandfathers asked for, and it's our duty as the beneficiary of the public trust resource.
 
I don't think it is wise to let things from 10-15 years ago continue to sour attitudes when things go right.

I also think it is absolutely necessary, and without question beneficial to sportsmen to give positive feedback to their Game agencies. If you're quick to scold, you should be quick to give praise.

Hyperpartisan attitudes and stubborn politics are the root of many impasse. Being a real person, who consistently shows up for the resource, and communicates honestly and fairly, goes a long way when the alternative is just voicing anger and opinions. Everyone, and I mean everyone, tunes that stuff out after a while.
 
I also think it is absolutely necessary, and without question beneficial to sportsmen to give positive feedback to their Game agencies. If you're quick to scold, you should be quick to give praise.
I don‘t disagree with your comments BUT, for those of us that have went to more meetings and written more responses than you can count it is obvious in that the vast majority of the times the meetings and letters are for protocol only, decisions have already been made and public opinion is filed in ——-.

How many years does it take to adjust the mule deer, antelope, B tags etc. before we are at current populations?

For every “Atta Boy“ Mt. G&F should get, there are X number of “Ah Chit“ - here we go again.

Worse Govt job in Mt would to be a G&F wildlife biologist - you’d either have to grow a pair and fight the system (and you won’t last long) or fall in line and not jeopardize your career. Politics run our G&F, plain and simple. Until we get a decent governor that appoints a decent dept. head all we can do is try.
 
In 2012 I was told “FWP isn’t into knee jerk reactions” they certainly jerk that knee it just only works in the direction of more tags. So no I don’t believe they deserve an atta boy on this one.
 
I'd like to see the numbers after winter of '96-'97. That was a rough one. I wanna say it was three years after that winter when does were legal again. Back then we were driving to the Swan Range/Condon area. Whitetail like crazy occasionally you'd see muleys not often. I don't remember seeing a muley for quite some time over there after that winter.

Took a bit for the rest of the state to catch up as well.
 
I don’t fully understand why people want to give others accolades for doing their job. It’s what we pay them to do. It’s one thing if they went above and beyond to do something that wasn’t necessary. That’s not the case here…they were slow to react and basically just did what was necessary.
I agree. This is the usual “everybody gets an award” attitude that is so prevalent currently.
 
In 2012 I was told “FWP isn’t into knee jerk reactions” they certainly jerk that knee it just only works in the direction of more tags. So no I don’t believe they deserve an atta boy on this one.
Sorry Doug, but this is nonsensical. You’ve bitched on here ad nauseum about how they never do the “right” thing, and you continue to bitch about it even when they’ve changed course. That puts you squarely in the camp of folks whose opinions get marginalized because it’s obvious they are impossible to please.

Reading the comments on here is enlightening. If this is the way some people have been engaging with the agency for decades, I can see why your gripes are falling on deaf ears at this point I guess. If you’ve got the reputation of complaining no matter what, you have sabotaged the value of your own comments.
 
Giving positive feedback lets FWP know that there are hunters that support biology-based management and makes them far more likely to listen to you next time. Positive feedback loops can be very effective.
Some of you guys need a club t-shirt.

Screenshot 2023-07-29 at 5.42.39 AM.png
 
Opportunity isn't necessarily defined by the number of critters in MT, it's defined by the fun ticket in your pocket. Deer are a renewable resource, luckily.
And they were reduced 91% in region 7…

Still got folks saying Should have been 0 tags!??? Jeeeezzze
 
Sorry Doug, but this is nonsensical. You’ve bitched on here ad nauseum about how they never do the “right” thing, and you continue to bitch about it even when they’ve changed course. That puts you squarely in the camp of folks whose opinions get marginalized because it’s obvious they are impossible to please.

Reading the comments on here is enlightening. If this is the way some people have been engaging with the agency for decades, I can see why your gripes are falling on deaf ears at this point I guess. If you’ve got the reputation of complaining no matter what, you have sabotaged the value of your own comments.
 
Sorry Doug, but this is nonsensical. You’ve bitched on here ad nauseum about how they never do the “right” thing, and you continue to bitch about it even when they’ve changed course. That puts you squarely in the camp of folks whose opinions get marginalized because it’s obvious they are impossible to please.

Reading the comments on here is enlightening. If this is the way some people have been engaging with the agency for decades, I can see why your gripes are falling on deaf ears at this point I guess. If you’ve got the reputation of complaining no matter what, you have sabotaged the value of your own comments.
They didn’t change course they followed the adaptive mule deer management plan which I believe they are required to do. They have done it before.
We will see what the season settings look like for next year maybe we will see some positive adjustments. Good Job FWP.
 
Sorry Doug, but this is nonsensical. You’ve bitched on here ad nauseum about how they never do the “right” thing, and you continue to bitch about it even when they’ve changed course. That puts you squarely in the camp of folks whose opinions get marginalized because it’s obvious they are impossible to please.

Reading the comments on here is enlightening. If this is the way some people have been engaging with the agency for decades, I can see why your gripes are falling on deaf ears at this point I guess. If you’ve got the reputation of complaining no matter what, you have sabotaged the value of your own comments.
I agree to a point.

My question has always been though, why has the FWP systematically been in denial for 3-4 decades on many of these issues? Another question is why does it take absolute rock bottom before any kind of change can happen?

It didn't have to be this way if just a bit of listening to the public, applying biology, and in many cases common sense was considered in the past.

There is blame on the agency side too. Writing well thought out letters applying a research/biological background, and decades of familiarity with country you've hunted for longer than the biologists in charge have been alive..only to be told you're full of shit, comes with consequences.

Sadly, many of the things I've commented on I've been proven correct. Not that I'm some kind of genius, but the outcomes were predictable to anyone that even half way paid attention.

We can revisit this in 5-10 years as I'm not convinced this is going to be a long term management strategy that the FWP is going to embrace. If so, they will get praise, until then I'm skeptical. Forty years of getting kicked in the teeth makes people that way.
 
Giving positive feedback lets FWP know that there are hunters that support biology-based management and makes them far more likely to listen to you next time. Positive feedback loops can be very effective.
Some of you guys need a club t-shirt.
Please tell me what biology based decisions in the last 2 years, 5 years, 10 years etc. that have been made and implemented by Mt. G&F that have shown positive results in our wildlife herds on “public“ land.

Emotional atta boys are feel good jesters for kids. Time to evaluate by results.

I’ll wait for all the atta boy crowd to change my opinion on our current situation.

PS: Buzz beat me to the send button, but I’ll still leave this here.
 
Please tell me what biology based decisions in the last 2 years, 5 years, 10 years etc. that have been made and implemented by Mt. G&F that have shown positive results in our wildlife herds on “public“ land.
Why "public"? Do you want to further delineate a specific section that I have to prove a positive result on? I tend to believe you know it is impossible for me to prove anything of the sort. I know they cut B tags previously and I know they change antelope tags frequently based on trends. I'm not saying FWP is perfect (or even good) or there aren't changes that could and should be made. That is not the point of this thread at all. The point is, when they do something you like you should tell them. Or as Ben put it, "honey, vinegar, and all that". I guarantee there is someone sending an email complaining about the cut in tags. This rule of positive feedback should apply to spouses and kids and just human beings in general. A positive word goes a lot further than complaints. I would think we would have figured this out by now because complaining for the last 10+ yrs sure didn't show a positive result on wildlife herds on "public" land either.

Best $8 you can spend.
Screenshot 2023-07-29 at 8.08.40 AM.png
 
Giving positive feedback lets FWP know that there are hunters that support biology-based management and makes them far more likely to listen to you next time. Positive feedback loops can be very effective.
Some of you guys need a club t-shirt.

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