Big bucks management?

[Tom]

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http://community.webshots.com/user/tominsa/1

I have these incredible experiences at this ranch where I guide. I went there this last weekend again and got the big red stag pictured in the exotics area, with the guy I guided for the weekend before also. He got a huge spotted fallow in velvet the last weekend and I posted on it in the exotics also. This time we did get the stag. Its mainly whitetails in more recent years but has some exotics.

The Texas whitetail are getting bigger, but still in velvet now. I ran out of disks for my digital camera last weekend taking pictures.

The ranch owner has been working on getting bigger whitetails there the last few years. He's been successful I think. He has buck deer hunts starting at $750 for a cull buck 8 pointer less than 16 inches in spread and goes up to $4500. My hunter from last weekend and this coming weekend is probably going to get a $4500 one, but shoot it next year when it is 6 1/2. The deer he liked is only 5 1/2 this year, so he'll hunt him next year, he might be bigger, he might not. This guy paid $6000 to hunt a big buck in Mexico a year or two ago and didn't even shoot. He says $4500 is a deal.

For me a $100 doe is a deal, but I love to guide these other guys when I can.

Take a look at these pictures I put at webshots, you'll get a feel for what this kind of management can do.

http://community.webshots.com/user/tominsa/1

Tell me what you think. What's your reactions, questions, and comments?

This is what high fence management can do in this state where people have been doing it since the 30s and have the kinks worked out. Without the high fence, the neighbors would shoot a buck as soon as he got 8 points, if not before. He has bigger bucks and a lot more of them on this place, because of the way he manages it.

We have lots of different ranches here, this is an example of one kind.

What do you think? There's 44 pictures there that I took in about 1 1/2 to 2 days of hunting with the camera.

 

[Michaelr]

what do you put in the feed bucket to bring them into shooting range?????

 

[Tom]

I got a 16x camera. We sit in blinds, they work pretty good. We throw out corn too. Plus, we manage for lots of them, lots. We have about 4 million whitetail in our state. How many you got there? Its different styles, this is one of them used here, it works.

 

[cjcj]

Where i stand i don`t call that hunting, just my opinion.

 

[Tom]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by cjcj:
... i don`t call that hunting, ...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

What part is "that", having lots of them, throwing out corn, sitting in a blind, what?

 

[cjcj]

Tom ,if it`s putting out feed that bring`s deer [trophy buck] into an area, or spot that you sit in a blind and shoot it then to me that`s way, way to easy! i`ve seen it done on many of the tv show`s, and for me that`s not hunting, i don`t see any hunting skill`s involved in most of these feed and shoot deer hunt`s, once again that`s my opinion, from what i have seen it`s not for me, and i`m even handicapped with a bad leg, but i don`t want it that easy, to me finding the game is the Hardest part of my hunt shooting it is easy.

 

[JoseCuervo]

CJ,

I'm with you on this one buddy. I think this is an even bigger threat to the American way of life than the illegals. Give 'em Hell, CJ!!!

Hey, by the way, any luck on getting McCain to start seeing things OUR way on getting them Dams breached?

 

[cjcj]

Yea we called Mcain, and we told them about dam`s that were no longer needed in idaho specificaly on the snake river, we were told that he was out of town, but the info would be passed along.[but they alway`s tell us that]

 

[Tom]

Well, the bait business is pretty big down here, so even the non-hunters love the hunters, for the business. It doesn't always work either. I know a guy who put out 500 lbs of corn during deer season and never saw a deer where he put it during hunting times of day. There were fresh tracks gallore there, but the deer were nocturnal because there was lots of hunting pressure. This place I took pictures has lots of deer, the hunting pressure is controlled, the deer have not been shot at yet, so I got lots of good pictures quickly. Its more like what you probably saw on TV than the normal hunt here.

The hunt at a place like that is waiting out the big one, shooting him the year that he is in his prime. The owner of this place has a photo album of the bucks there. He decides what year, he'll let people shoot them, but he discusses with the hunters too, to decide.

The wide 12+ point one can be shot this year. He was a 9 point last year, but an 11 point the year before. This year, someone will shoot him for $4500 probably.

This is one style here. Its a style that makes the TV shows a lot, because there are lots of animals to see. Its fun, but its not what I would want all the time for sure.

Why do you think it threatens American life more than illegals do?

 

[FEW]

I think taking away their right to have game ranches would be a threat to the American way, let them hunt how they want. I will NEVER hunt at a place that charges higher dollar amounts for larger animals. Thats not saying I would not hunt in Texas, I have seen a couple places where you pay to hunt the land and that is it, which would be fine for me. I just can not imagine getting any satisfaction out of going out, spotting a critter, waiting for my guide to give me a quote on what it will score/cost then deciding if I want to shoot... Obviously there is a market for it so I say let them do it, I just will not support or be involved in it...

 

[Tom]

FEW, the reason I know that one is $4500 now, is because the hunter that originally wanted him, is hesitating so he was opened up for my hunter. My hunter has a different one picked out, but he will likely get it next year, as it is only 5 1/2 this year and they're hoping he'll be better next year. These people know the price before they come hunt like this.

There are a lot of places where you just pay and go hunt here. I like the annual leases like that, that's what I have. That way you scout, you set up, you wait, you have all year to control the pressure, to see what you can get. I like your point about taking it away, and aggree, whether we would do it or not, it would be anti-hunting and take away a form of hunting that is legal, and working well for some or many, depending on how you count.

 

[FEW]

Tom, I was not really talking about the hunt you were posting about. What I was thinking of was several times I have looked at these guys websites and they charge like $100 per SCI point and they have a caption on their websites that the guide will give you a price for the animal before you shoot it... Either way I say to each his own...

 

[1_pointer]

If they have pictures of the deer and know where the feeders the buck they have paid for are located, what is a guide for?

 

[Tom]

Its a good question, kind of funny, eh. Guide duties: open the gate, gut the animal, help get him to town, collect the money, trail the animal, watch the shot, throw out the corn, drive the hunter around, hunt with him, help judge the animals, there are choices, know the ranch and other ranches that you might go to. There are usually multiple animals to choose from and try to get. We hunted two ranches when I took those pictures and two last weekend also. The animals didn't cooperate on one, so we went to another, that's where we got the fallow buck, I posted in exotics. The big one doesn't always show up at a bucket, there are lots of places to eat, besides one bucket. Its not a bucket either. Look at the pictures, they are eating off the ground there. One time, I really helped by shining the flashlight on the places you might trip while walking in, in the dark of the morning, they really appreciated that. haha Just help make the hunt work out as best as possible.

 

[cjcj]

Tom, it was yotegunner who said your hunt was more of a threat than illegal`s, i hope [think] he is joking, NOTHING is a greater threat to the western USA than illegal`s. as far as your type of hunting i support your right to do it 100% it`s just not for me , i love gutting and skinning my animal`s ,nothing better than to have my critter hanging in a tree, while i kick back after all of the work is done, it`s bad enough that iv`e become pretty much a road hunter[i used to HATE those guy`s] but i still like to have some challenge to my hunt , i love it when a truck full of guy`s goes by or pulls into my camp and my wife and i have the meat hanging, and they see me hopping around on a cane,and a little[but scrappy] petite blond and wonder how we did it! most of them will ask where are they and tell me they haven`t seen anything, these are the types that you can help out because they need it, i`m just stuck in my old way`s.

 

[Tom]

Cjcj, I like the vision of your camp I have. One of the challenges, is to just shoot one, how would you like a hunt like that? Heck, I'll discuss illegals some too. I went to town and got more supplies for my camera that weekend I took all those pictures. When I got back, I parked near the hay barn in camp. We throw out alfalfa too, axis and sika and red stag have that type thing in their diet mainly. You can see it in some of the pictures. This place is like a feed lot, except its full of trees and you hunt there. The animals eat only the best stuff, that's one reason why so many look so good there.

A Mexican guy was sleeping in the barn, I woke him up when I parked there. He told me he was looking for work. I said I had no work and moved my truck. I figured he would be hungry, so when I went out in the early am, still dark, to set at a blind and take more pictures, I left him some food.

I put some canned ham, been, bread, and water, in a grocery bag, with a handle, ready to carry. He got the idea, he carried it off and was gone when I got back to camp late morning. If he was an illegal, and he probably was, he had walked about 100 miles north of Mexico, slept in barns along the way, and was happy to get any food, work, and water that he could. Pretty amazing life. If I didn't leave him the food, I figured he might realize I was out hunting/photographing and break into the cabin and take whatever food and drink he could. That has happened at this ranch before. What would you do?

I didn't call the border patrol as it was late and I wanted to get to bed and I would have had to drive to the top of the hill to get my phone to work and I figured he would think, the jig was up and head out, if I did that. The next day, I figured he was gone and it wssn't worth calling the border patrol then. I've called the border patrol there before.

Its amazing, a hunter shooting a $2500 animal, looking at another $4500 one, and another man walking 100 miles for a handout and some possible work.

Where's goodyear, anyway?

 

[JoseCuervo]

Hmmm... Let's see... You look thru a book, find the one you want, based on the pictures, and then pay somebody $4500, which include the services of opening gates, gut the animal, help get him to town, collect the money, watch the shot, throw out the corn, drive the hunter around.

And you don't see the downfall of the American way of life?

(Cue --- Battle Hymm of the Republic)

Would Daniel Crockett have hunted in Wyoming like this?

Would Buffalo Bill Carson have settled Kentucky like this?

Would Davey Boone have discovered the Alamo like this?

Would William Lewis and Kit Clark have discovered Florida like this?

NO!

All these great Americans knew what was important, and how to do it, and they did not do it by paying someone $4500 to open gates for them, or drive them to town.

Yes, this is the greatest threat to the American Way of life, well... this, and an appalling lack of History being taught in our Public School Systems....

 

[cjcj]

Gunner, it`s maybee not the type and style of critter killing that we prefer,but it`s perfectly legal,and it`s better than being a Non-Hunter

ALL hunter`s/ shooter`s have to support each other if we don`t the peta/hollywood crowd will take over, and Tom i would have called the cop`s , I.N.S. etc. to arrest that illegal for tresspassing and if the said they would`nt come out[as they sometimes do] i`d run his ass of myself, goodyear is in arizona west of phx, i grew up in phx. [maryvale area] but it`s all a crime ridden ghetto these day`s. [mostly illegal`s]​

 

[Tom]

Yotegunner, pretty funny, Davey discovered the Alamo. haha It was built here, its still here. There's a big memorial outside the main building and its treated as a shrine. 186 people died there defending Texas freedom in 1836 against about 5000 of Santa Anna's troops. It gave Sam Houston time to get an army together, they defeated what was left of Santa Anta's army at San Jacinto in about 15 minutes after that battle at the Alamo that Davey was in and won Texas freedom. This is Texas.
The Alamo is maintained now by the Daughters of the Republic, private citizen decendents of those who fought there in 1836, not the state, not the city, private citizens.

We have great hunting here, lots of it, all kinds. These pictures are from one place.

 

[BuzzH]

cjcj said, "ALL hunter`s/ shooter`s have to support each other if we don`t the peta/hollywood crowd will take over"

Thats a bunch of crap and nothing more than sensationalism.

I tell you one thing, I will join PETA before I pay $4500 for some honyocker to open a gate and place a bait pile for me so I can shoot the most common big-game animal in the United States.

I question whether people who "hunt" like this even really want to do it. It seem to me they dont want to shell out the dough or the effort unless theres a guaranteed result for a specific critter. Wheres the ambition? Wheres the sense of adventure? Wheres the knowledge of the critters?

Anytime you pay for a specific animal ahead of time, you may as well be buying livestock at an auction.

Oh, and I dont want these jokers who hunt like that defending my way of hunting...they can concentrate on defending their livestock shoots.