Big bucks management?

[BuzzH]

Anybody with some ambition and I'd say 500-1500 dollars could bag bucks like this. All of these were taken on public land in MT.

An 8 1/2 year old buck.

Last years buck.

Check out the eyeguards!

 

[dgibson]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>(Cue --- Battle Hymm of the Republic)

Would Daniel Crockett have hunted in Wyoming like this?

Would Buffalo Bill Carson have settled Kentucky like this?

Would Davey Boone have discovered the Alamo like this?

Would William Lewis and Kit Clark have discovered Florida like this?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Ah, it is to laugh! I haven't chuckled like that in a long while.

 

[Tom]

Huge eyeguards! I like the first and especially the third one, where you are smilling! Our Texas current state record archery buck is from a $50 public hunt with a free drawing application. It scored like 240 something. The out of state liscense would be another $250, but I heard that is going up Sept.1. Its at the web site for Texas Parks and Wildlife now, I think, the new price.

It was Daniel Boone and Davy Crockett, they both died at the Alamo defending Texas freedom and they were both out of staters.

 

[BuzzH]

Heres my buddy from AZ with a buck he took last year, his first whitetail. We hunted together for a day until he was comfortable with the area. The 3rd day he shot this buck. The total cost for this hunt was around $650, including an airplane ticket, license, and grub for a week.

I guess he could have hunted over a bait pile in Texas and had someone hold his hand the whole time. Probably would have avoided all that icky blood on his hands and having to pack his buck a few miles too.

A couple more public land bucks.

 

[Tom]

Here's a story and picture on the $50 public hunt record here I mentioned above.

http://www.texassportsmanmag.com/tx_aa075102a/

No bait piles, no vehicles, no friend/scout/guide pointing the way, no big money, but a state record buck from a public hunt.

 

[cjcj]

Buzz from some of your post`s i`d say you already belong to PETA! what do you care if some people want to do that type of hunt [baiting] what about bear baiting? where do you draw your line? i hunt the old fashioned way, and the last thing i need is some self-proclaimed no-it all telling me or anyone else how to hunt or spend their own money! i like your pic`s [average] so you killed a couple of deer ive killed over 25 big deal,you hunt your way and me and everyone else hunt`s theirs, FREEDOM of choice is what it`s all about!

 

[BuzzH]

cjcj, you speak out of both sides of your mouth.

You give me crap for telling people how to hunt...while you tell me and everyone else we need to support ALL types of hunting and stick together. Where do you come up with that kind of shit anyway?

I wont defend someones right to pay $4500 for a whitetail behind the wire and over a bait pile, while Tom holds the gate open for them. I also wont pursue ways to keep them from doing it either. But, I still dont have to 1. like it and 2. defend it.

And, yes, before I ever hunt over a bait pile behind the wire in Texas for a gob of cash, I will join PETA.

Now maybe you have a small clue as to why some hunters like myself and Ithaca fight so hard for public lands and public lands health...so myself and the public has a place to hunt where Tom doesnt need to point me out the right buck, put the corn out, dress it for me, hold the gate, and wipe my ass when I crap.

I dont care how many deer you've killed, nor should you be concerned with how many I've killed. But, while we're on the subject, post up a couple pics of your "average" buck(s).

I dont need to defend my style of hunting or how many deer I've taken. The object of my above post was to point out that there are cheaper and more rewarding ways to secure a trophy whitetail...other than paying $4500. I dont like the direction hunting is headed, and the main cause of that direction is peoples lack of ability, patience, and dedication to the sport...its become easier to just whip out the check book. They're missing the point of hunting.

 

[Tom]

Buzz, because somebody does one hunt one way, one time, does not mean they miss the point of doing any hunt another way at another time. Its not that simple. People bait sometimes, they don't at other times, people go in a high fence sometimes, they don't at other times. There's no point they miss, they experience and understand the variety. You missed my point about variety, I could say. You ignored the $50 public hunt state record here and seem to condemn the state. The state record is from no bait, no guide, public ground, you like that, right? You should praise that hunt, to make your point, for people here to get the point of hunting here. If that is what you wanted, but its not. Your point is more like, I walked all over the place, I scouted all over the place, I shot these deer, I took my friends to these deer, those other guys don't even know what hunting is, they are killing me. I could just shit all over them, I think I'll do it here.

I understand you don't like it, that's fine, but don't ignore the stuff here that you do like. Encourage that some, but not much, I don't want everybody applying for those limited good experience tags on public hunts. That would further reduce the opportunity for good public hunts. That's the point I really like about the high fence management, it really increases opportunity to hunt for more people. Many more people are able to enjoy and support hunting for all, with the opportunity, (whether we like it, whether we would do it, or not) with baiting and with high fence, at least here, it seems that way. They are management tools, that's the way I look at it, no more, no less, they are just management tools. God baits too, eh? haha

Just because you're a good hunter one way, doesn't mean you have to shit all over people for doing a hunt another way, control yourself. You seem so excited, I thought I would use some of your words to communicate with you some.

 

[cjcj]

Buzz don`t you even know when i`m in agreeing with you ? i like the way you hunt [ get out and get after them] all i`m saying is we as hunter`s need all the support we can get, and that includes the texas bait hunter`s, and if you would rather join PETA than support them, then in my opinion you will cut your own throat in the end, if you read my post`s you will see where I was the one who was telling Tom that it aint for me. Jeezus Peezus you are hardheaded.

 

[BuzzH]

cj, no I dont need the texas bait pile livestock shooters supporting public lands hunting.

What they want and what I want are two different things.

Like I said before, they can defend their own crappy excuse of a hunt, and I'll defend mine. That way, we're both happy.

I dont know who has been telling you we all have to stick together, but that idea is ridiculous and potentially damaging. why should I support something that I feel degrades the sport?

 

[JoseCuervo]

The Texas high fence hunters have more in common with Legalized Prostitution advocates. There is not much difference in the two "sports". If the high fence guys are looking for supporters, they could go to the bordellos.

Suppose anybody would head to Texas to stop Santanna, this time???

If I have to ally to get support for hunting, I am going to ally with people who work to put more animals on public lands, not people who work to put goofy exotics on ranches in Texas.

Buzz, great pictures, and you even smiled in a couple of them. How come you never shoot anything over 180?

It is people like you that keep me from posting my pictues...

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 08-01-2003 23:29: Message edited by: YoteGunner ]</font>

 

[Tom]

I read an article by a guy in Montana where he thought the future of hunting would be saved if the quality of hunters was increased, not the quantity. The guys I've hunted with on high fence places here are high quality people, they are very good people, they are very ambitious people. It seems pretty obvious to me, you need quantity of votes and quality, to get votes. It also seems risky to me to put all of the future of hunting into public land only. That is very dangerous, as it is my understanding there are more game animals on private land, than on public land. To manage game animals, one is dangerously, letting many of them suffer the lack of support, if one only supported public hunting.

Its my observation that high fence huters contribute quite a bit to society and I am very happy that they are hunters too.

We're all stuck here on this earth, fence or no fence, we do the best we can with it. To be against a high fence hunt, no matter how big, is a pretty rediculous position to take. These pictures show what an ambitious person can do with that type of management over a period of several years.

It may be easier to take that position, you can just then sit back and watch a lot of hunting dissappear to the anti-hunting agenda, to remove all hunting, and think that you are doing something good. A pretty rediculous position to take, if you really think you're a hunter.

 

[Michaelr]

I'm totally with Buzz on this one

 

[Tom]

Yotegunner talking about legalized prostitution is changing the subject. That direction of thought is not productive, or enlightening but diversionary, I think.

Say, you pay $50 for a public hunt tag, is that then cheap prostitution?
Say, you pay $5000 for an outfitted hunt, is that paying the pimp?
Say, you pay $15,000 for a high quality private ranch, is that expensive prostitution?
Say, you pay $100,000 for a govenor's tag, is that some kind of ultimate prostitution?

Hunting and prostitution have next to nothing in common ever, that's my view. Making that argument is a dangerous and cheap slam for very legitimate hunting.

 

[MarlandS]

Tom, no offense meant but calling what you described you do as guiding seems off base, it sounds more like babysitting.

Say that guy bags that $4500 buck, how much of that money goes to wildlife funding other than at the ranch? You know, state level etc.

next question, do these "hunters" hunt anywhere besides the ranches? I guess I'm asking , of those you've ...ummm... guided, how many hunt or have hunted indigenous species in truly wild conditions?

I do agree we need to stick together somewhat, we need their money, and the ones who only desire to hunt behind the wire in the manner you described need us to lie to them that they are hunters.
Paying $4500 for a whitetail is a lot like cocaine, it's God's way of saying you make too much money.

Buzz, we cut those sizes up for bait around here

 

[dgibson]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>The future of hunting is not Private lands.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>If you folks out West don't get a handle on your development, subdividing, "economic expansion," etc., that is EXACTLY where your future lies. Ask anybody east of the Mississippi.

 

[JoseCuervo]

Paying someone $4500 to open gates and drive you to town has nothing to do with hunting. I think it seems a lot more similar to going to a bordello thatn hunting.

The future of hunting is not Private lands. Or if it is, and I have to pay $4500 to shoot a white tail, then I am done hunting, and will be doing other things I enjoy. I hope I am never so desparate as to need to drop $4500 on a baited hunt, behind a High Fence.

 

[1_pointer]

DG- That statement is all too true, which is one reason I like it out here, however short that stay will be.

 

[cjcj]

Dgibson= it might already be too late!

 

[Tom]

Well, this place is an example. It is just getting good whitetails after years of development, so its not typical at all. There were some western hunters there the next weekend, 2 guys, one helping the other. They went into the ranch without me and hardly saw anything. They only caught glimses of animals through the trees. They came out at 3pm that day. We talked and I took them to another ranch about 35 miles away and we had a gold level fallow buck on the ground by dark, they are $1500. The hunter had seen fallow and axis on the roads driving there and decided he liked fallow. There is something to the guiding, knowing the ranch and the animals, what works and what doesn't, that example illustrates it. All $4500 goes to that ranch, but they have to pay liscenses out of it also, he's a liscensed whitetail breeder, I believe, the owner, but I just know there's whitetails there, I don't know the costs for the liscense to have them like that. The liscense fee for having a ranch like that goes to the state, and for each hunter, there is a liscese fee that goes to the state. That liscense is more for whitetails than it is for exotics. The deer there start at $750 for a cull 8 point about 14-16 inches wide, so they are not all $4500, just the biggest ones.

I don't go through the history of their hunting with each hunter, but we talk about it a lot. The guy that weekend got a freerange pronghorn, the year before. He always hunts whitetails on a lease and on his land now, which is free range hunting. I think he thought the $4500 was a deal, because he paid $6000 for a Mexico hunt, the year before. He saw a nice one the first day on that hunt, but waited, thought there might be better ones, and never shot. Seeing what we saw in a weekend, he said $4500 was a deal, in coparison to the Mexico hunt, I think, mostly. They pay a $125/day hunt/guide fee, so he would have been much better off there, instead of Mexico, in hind sight. Some of the hunters have hunted all over the world. One guy, a few years ago, had darted a rhino, and got his picture taken, then it was released. He also got a muskox, way up north. He was pretty interesting. His job involved responsibilities in 140 countries of the world, so he had hunted all over. He was very nice also, pretty amazing.

I never hold their hands Marlin, maybe that's what you like, but that's not it here. I might help lift you up, if you fell, but that is about it. I work to get them a good shot on what they are hunting. Then I work to get the animal taken care of. Its hot here now, like 90s, so we can't waste time and we usually take them to a cooler at a taxidermists place in town. We have ice in coolers in camp and put that in the chest cavity often also. They're trophies, so we gut them in the field, carry, drag, and load them in a truck and head to the cooler. I have a plywood sled, to get animals out of the woods, where I can get them in a truck. No hanging them in a tree and skinning, its too hot here now for that.

Axis got hard antlered starting in June mostly, red stags are getting hard now, most all fallows will be hard for Sept. Sika (?) and whitetail for Oct.

Yotegunner, if you flew to Alaska and they picked you up, drove you around, flew you to camp, fed you, put you to bed, then took you to shoot something in the morning, what would that seem like? What would it cost you? Would you do that? Say blacktails on Kodiak Island, they were planted there a while back, as I understand it, to beef up the population.

Is that hand holding Marlin? They even cook for you on this example and get your bed setup ahead of time. See how easy it is to focus on the wrong thing, i.e. miss the point of it being hunting.

Not all private hunting is like this place at all, its just one example, even extreme here, but its real.