Biden vs Gun Owners

[VikingsGuy]

People also need to realize that there is no Constitutional provision protecting the ownership or use of opiates. The misplaced logic in defense of the attacks on gun ownership, cause much of the public to accept policies that are erroneously construed as necessary.

People also need to realize that there is not a single Constitutional right that is free of all regulation and oversight. So what we are talking about are what those should be (in light of the constitution).

People also need to realize (or cite good SCOTUS precident to the contrary) that until Heller in 2008, the US constitution had never been found to provide for a private right of gun ownership. And even Heller itself - the most pro 2A SCOTUS ruling in history - specifically says, "Like most rights, the right secured by the Second Amendment is not unlimited." Scalia also wrote, "nothing in our opinion (Heller) should be taken to cast doubt on longstanding prohibitions on the possession of firearms by felons and the mentally ill, or laws forbidding the carrying of firearms in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings, or laws impos ing conditions and qualifications on the commercial sale of arms." He goes further and says, "We also recognize another important limitation on the right to keep and carry arms . . . . the carrying of “dangerous and unusual weapons.” (citing support for Miller and the NFA) He then makes refernce to M14s as being such a regulatable weapon - but of course this reference is merely dicta.

Any position that gun ownership is untouchable and beyond any regulation is based upon zero understanding of the law or of history - and is instead advocating for a brand new view of gun ownership that has never had the power of law behind it - and as such should need to carry the burden of that position - as our Constitution simply does not support it.

 

[BigHornRam]

I agree....look at the Obama administration...first 2 years, majority in the house, senate, supreme court yet no anti-gun legislation, no anti-gun executive orders. Obama did sign the law allowing guns in National Parks.

Obama signed a credit card bill that had the language allowing guns in National Parks stuffed in it. If it was a stand alone bill he wouldn't have signed it.

Working Out the Details of Guns in National Parks (Published 2009)

A new law will allow guns in national parks and wildlife refuges, leaving officials to wonder how the new rules will affect enforcement of poaching and permit laws.

www.nytimes.com

A new law passed by Congress and signed by President Obama last week will allow guns in the parks and national wildlife refuges. Attached as an amendment to an overhaul of credit card rules, the law will take effect next year.

 

[Dan O]

After nearly 28 years as a LEO and dealing with all types of crime I have found we have plenty of laws to go around. What we do not have is consistency. We had many gun related cases such as felon in possession, use of a firearm in a crime etc. Many times there was a refusal to prosecute. Why? Because it was not of importance apparently or just a bother. During sentencing again it was often not a factor.
This is still an issue nation wide. There are plenty of laws to go after the criminal's there is no reason to go after the law abiding citizen. Remember the people using firearms to commit crimes don't give chit about the law, That should be pretty simple to understand but it seems some folks have a hard time understanding that aspect of the issue.

 

[3855WIN]

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing...dent-three-years-after-the-parkland-shooting/ including requiring background checks on all gun sales, banning assault weapons and high-capacity magazines, and eliminating immunity for gun manufacturers who knowingly put weapons of war on our streets.

 

[3855WIN]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1360980678704308224

 

[VikingsGuy]

The real question is (a) will Manchin first vote to eliminate the filibuster; and (b) will Manchin then vote for the resulting bill. If not this is just noise for his supporters. Just like repeal of Obamacare in 2017-2018.

 

[AlaskaHunter]

The real question is (a) will Manchin first vote to eliminate the filibuster; and (b) will Manchin then vote for the resulting bill. If not this is just noise for his supporters. Just like repeal of Obamacare in 2017-2018.

Tester is another Democratic senator likely to vote against gun control legislation....

 

[AlaskaHunter]

After nearly 28 years as a LEO and dealing with all types of crime I have found we have plenty of laws to go around. What we do not have is consistency. We had many gun related cases such as felon in possession, use of a firearm in a crime etc. Many times there was a refusal to prosecute. Why? Because it was not of importance apparently or just a bother. During sentencing again it was often not a factor.
This is still an issue nation wide. There are plenty of laws to go after the criminal's there is no reason to go after the law abiding citizen. Remember the people using firearms to commit crimes don't give chit about the law, That should be pretty simple to understand but it seems some folks have a hard time understanding that aspect of the issue.

What is a LEO?

 

[Nick87]

What is a LEO?

Law enforcement officer

 

[mtmuley]

What is a LEO?

Law Enforcement Officer. mtmuley

 

[mtmuley]

Law enforcement officer

Seconds apart. mtmuley

 

[Doublegunner]

I get it, but you could set up that same scenario for every legislative and regulatory issue for the last 200 years. Are you suggesting we make no progress on any of them ever? There has to be a way for society to move forward on solutions like clean water, violence, etc. We have to be able to grab shared low hanging fruit and easy wins without planting our feet in cement.

I think the path is not that we should draw an absolutist line, but that we should find ways to reject and discredit ideas that fail to acheive the intented objective or that serve primarily as "social/economic friction" that causes lawful citizens to forego their lawful rights. I draw parallels to the abortion question. If you believe it to be murder then vote to ban it outright or with acceptable qualifications like life of the mother, but don't pass zoning laws that make it so no clinic could ever be built, don't pass laws that try to make them prohibitively expensive to operate. What we are seeing is that on way too many issues the opponents have stopped making their primary case (knowing they can't win it), and instead try to kill the issue in question via a death of a thousand paper cuts. From nusance regulations (no online ammo sales or special zoning laws for abortion clinics), to increasing civil liaility for industries, to "safe harbor" cities and states refusing to follow binding law, to serial district court litigation that clogs up and confuses the legal framework, to reframing every issue as a "health issue" or an "education issue", etc. our democracy has ceased to be about the big issues and seeking appropriate outcomes, it has become full on guriella warfare - and I don't like it in the area of gun regulation, or immigration, or medical regulation, or abortion, or , or, . . .

How do you define progress? Also, that presupposes that we actually have a problem. We have about 350 million people in this country and an estimated 393 million guns. Approximately 19,000 people died in 2020 due to "gun violence" in the states. You do the math but that is pretty low given our population and the number of guns in circulation. Over 235,000 get injured in bathrooms every year. Why don't we spend more time on bathroom safety? The people supporting the gun legislation are not burdened by reason. They have a goal of eliminating gun ownership with a step by step approach. Attack those areas that are politically vulnerable and when they have succeeded move on to their next target. Its that simple. At some point we have to acknowledge that further gun control laws won't make a significant difference. We have already gone beyond that point. I think the unfortunate reality is that we will occasionally see some nutbag shoot up a bunch of people. The question is, do you punish that one person who did it or everybody else just cause they own or want to own a gun? The punish everyone else argument only seems to apply to gun owners. Why not alcohol sales? Or the purchase or rental of a motor vehicle? Prople would scoff at the idea of background checks for alcohol sales.

 

[BigHornRam]

Tester is another Democratic senator likely to vote against gun control legislation....

Doubtful.

Defeats Manchin-Toomey Background... - S.649: A bill to ensure that all individuals who...

Senate Vote 97 - On the Amendment S.Amdt. 715 to S. 649 (Safe Communities, Safe Schools Act of2013). Amendment Rejected, by a margin of 6 votes. See how your representative voted.

projects.propublica.org

 

[Sytes]

The real question is (a) will Manchin first vote to eliminate the filibuster; and (b) will Manchin then vote for the resulting bill. If not this is just noise for his supporters. Just like repeal of Obamacare in 2017-2018.

Noise? I believe you oppose general anti 2A legislation as you'veshared to fair reasoned past discussions... though VG, noise is the principle factor towards constructing Democrat seats/Biden and beyond influence that fuels planned anti 2A agendas...

Example:

Bloomberg’s gun control group spends $15M on campaigns in eight swing states

Everytown for Gun Safety, a gun control organization funded by Michael Bloomberg, announced Thursday it is spending $15 million on a digital ad campaign in eight swing states to help boost former V…

thehill.com

According to Bloomberg's millions - this is well spent noise.

"Everytown for Gun Safety, a gun control organization funded by Michael Bloomberg, announced Thursday it is spending $15 million on a digital ad campaign in eight swing states to help boost former Vice President Joe Biden and Democrats in competitive Senate races.

The ad blitz is the opening salvo of the $60 million it has pledged to spend during the 2020 campaign. The targeted states are Arizona, Florida, Georgia, Iowa, Minnesota, North Carolina, Pennsylvania and Texas.

Florida, where the group will spend $5 million, is the only state where Everytown is advertising in the presidential contest. The group is also spending $1.5 million in the North Carolina Senate race to unseat Sen. Thom Tillis (R) and $1.25 million each in the Arizona and Iowa Senate races.

Another $3.5 million is going toward targeting six House races in Texas, and $500,000 is being invested on behalf of Rep. Lucy McBath (D) in Georgia, who used to work as a spokesperson for the group and whose son was killed by gun violence."


Everytown is spending on state legislature races in all eight states.

"Gun safety has gone from a political third rail to the first thing many voters think about when they step into the voting booth," John Feinblatt, head of Everytown, said in a press release. "Everytown is going all-in to make sure voters in battleground states know exactly where the candidates stand on this life-or-death issue."

"As we head into the final stretch to November, this investment will allow us to meet voters where they are - and we're going there earlier and better than our opponents," added Charlie Kelly, a senior political adviser to the group.

The group, which is spending double what it doled out in the 2018 midterms, is looking to build on success from Virginia's 2017 and 2019 races, when Everytown spent heavily to help elect Gov. Ralph Northam and helped win Democrats control of both chambers of the state legislature.

Everytown's push to support candidates who support gun control also comes as the National Rifle Association's political power is waning amid internal strife. The 2018 midterm cycle was the first time gun control organizations collectively outspent the NRA in federal elections.

The investiture comes as Democrats feel confident in their ability to win both the White House and the Senate, with polls showing former Vice President Joe Biden leading President Trump in key swing states and a number of Democratic challengers outraising Republican Senate incumbents."

 

[VikingsGuy]

Or the purchase or rental of a motor vehicle?

We do, it's called a driver's license and it involves more training, test and enforcement than most common gun regs.

 

[VikingsGuy]

Noise? I believe you oppose general anti 2A legislation as you'veshared to fair reasoned past discussions... though VG, noise is the principle factor towards constructing Democrat seats/Biden and beyond influence that fuels planned anti 2A agendas...

My point was that without the votes, politicians will still throw a lot of shade to appease their core audience. Biden doesn't have the votes.

But if the GOP doesn't quit eating its own young and driving away the suburban middle class Biden/Bloomberg will have the votes in 2022. The Trump empowered rural white right cannot maintain a national majority alone so it better find a way to re-engage the suburbs or it will become as irrelevant as the GOP was in the 1940s, 60s and 70s, and the Dixiecrats were for their brief existance. And then we will find ourselves living in Warren's/Bernie's playground - not good, not good at all.

 

[Doublegunner]

We do, it's called a driver's license and it involves more training, test and enforcement than most common gun regs.

I can buy a car without a license. No background check required.

 

[VikingsGuy]

Doubtful.

Defeats Manchin-Toomey Background... - S.649: A bill to ensure that all individuals who...

Senate Vote 97 - On the Amendment S.Amdt. 715 to S. 649 (Safe Communities, Safe Schools Act of2013). Amendment Rejected, by a margin of 6 votes. See how your representative voted.

projects.propublica.org

The vote on that bill is hard to use to gauge 2A support. Some 2A supporters voted for it as a way heading off a more stringent bill also on the table, some 2A supporters voted against on base principle, some 2A haters voted against it because they wanted a vote on the more stringent bill and some 2A haters voted for it because they figured it was all they could get this session and would come back for more later. A real mish-mash.

 

[VikingsGuy]

I can buy a car without a license. No background check required.

In MN you need license and insurance to title it and to be able to drive it off the lot, could you maybe buy but never drive? Maybe but that is like saying you could pay for a gun but could never hold it. Getting a DL does involve a background process of sorts.

 

[MTGomer]

I can’t imagine looking around the last year or so and concluding , boy, the government sure is a great bunch, they should have more power and we should have less.

I’ll consider giving an inch on gun rights when the US government can go a few decades without murdering innocent people. In my lifetime, I doubt they’ve gone a single day.