Being a Man in the Modern World

[Nick87]

View attachment 194591Me and my kid are doing some manly stuff today. mtmuley

There is a lot to love about that picture. I used to do about 80 acres of small bales while working 50 to 60 hours. Lots work but I miss it, especially for my boys to have some work to do. I couldn't handle that volume anymore while still working the hours though that's for sure.

 

[mtmuley]

There is a lot to love about that picture. I used to do about 80 acres of small bales while working 50 to 60 hours. Lots work but I miss it, especially for my boys to have some work to do. I couldn't handle that volume anymore while still working the hours though that's for sure.

The simple stuff really gets lost these days. mtmuley

 

[longbow51]

Loved bucking bales; always in shape for football, and both O- and D-line pulverized our opponents (we played both sides those days) Eventually, in semifinals, we ran across backs who could run faster than us.

The list is ridiculous; reminds me of the "Real Men Don't Eat Quiche".

On trail rides, actually pushing cattle, anyone who didn't like my wife's onion/swiss, mushroom/shrimp quiche was nonexistant. They were huge fans. With raspberry pie, it was to die for.

And everyone should be able to deliver babies, treat sucking chest wounds, apply tourniquets, do basic sutures, as our SF guys did in Vietnam, all while calling in air strikes, and directing fields of fire. Their "medics" were better than PA's and almost doctors for trauma.

And still capable of mounting a counterinsurgency.

So, you can shove the "making toast and changing tires"

 

[OntarioHunter]

There is a lot to love about that picture. I used to do about 80 acres of small bales while working 50 to 60 hours. Lots work but I miss it, especially for my boys to have some work to do. I couldn't handle that volume anymore while still working the hours though that's for sure.

Yes, it brought back memories for me too. I had forty acres behind the house we rented and it always seemed a rainstorm was on the horizon every time the guy doing the baling finally showed up. I had to pick up my share off the field and vividly recall doing it in the headlights into the night and getting up a few hours later for dayshift at the plant. Wish I still had that '53 Chev 5-window with Model A flatbed on the back and homemade stock rack. I built that truck from the ground up using various pieces from the wrecking yard. Blue fenders, green doors, red hood, and beer keg for saddle tank. Dad called it the Flintstone truck. Throwing four layers of bales on that rig by myself was a workout. The heat cramps were a killer.

 

[Tradewind]

So dumb, half of these are ridiculously antiquated and the others will be at some point.

Honestly, the ability to quickly learn something is probably the most useful skill.

At this point who wears a shoe that needs to be shined? Arguably installing your own ram, replacing a hard drive, and setting up security setting on your personal data is a far more important set of skills.

And in 30 years those will all likely be antiquated and anyone who says you need to be able to swap out ram cards will be an asshat.

Bet hatchet makers love these manly lists though.

Hmmph, figures. That list mostly is about negotiating life and then dealing with murphy when he shows up, without google. Or being in places w/o service. I'd like to see your list...

 

[Oak]

I feel that, although perhaps not directly relevant to the conversation, the words of David Starr Jordan (1904) belong in this thread.

"Here in Colorado, as in California, Nature is kind to man. The weather never makes him its slave, never shuts him up to stew in over-heated rooms. Colorado, like California, is a virile State -- one of "Earth's male lands," to adopt Browning's classification. It has, like California, the three splendid attributes of healthful air, magnificent scenery and physical and mental standing room. It breeds independent, all-around men. Colorado flows red blood. It has the out-of-doors atmosphere--free from the narrow, cramped public opinion born of overheated houses, the public opinion of the village of white houses and green blinds, where everybody knows everybody's business. Colorado has the public opinion of the man who stands on his own feet, cares for his own needs, is sufficient unto himself and has the large charity which sound nerves ensure. The way of Colorado is the warrior's way--"the Bushido," as they said in old Japan-- the way of the Rough Rider, the way of the strong arm and the tender heart, which cares only for what men are, and not at all for what men say.

"Weak men, kept good in the East through the upbraiding of maiden aunts, often fail in Colorado. Good men grow better, for they must fight for and justify their virtue; and after all, that is the only kind of righteousness that counts-- the vast, burly, aggressive righteousness to which sin is folly; selfishness and vice, things to be avoided as contemptible as well as shunned as wicked. The scholar in Colorado partakes of the largeness of his field. The dim-eyed monk, the stoop-shouldered grammarian--these are not his ideals. The scholar is the leader of enterprises, the builder of states.

"The air of Colorado is charged with oxygen; it is atmosphere in which to bring up a boy. In Colorado he becomes an out-of-door man. He expands his chest; he can do things; he becomes fearless because he is adequate."

 

[Oak]

And also President Roosevelt:

"A man who is hardy, resolute, and a good shot, has come nearer to realizing the ideal of a bold and free hunter than is the case with one who is merely stealthy and patient; and so, though to kill a white-tail is rather more difficult than to kill a black-tail [mule deer], yet the chase of the latter is certainly the nobler form of sport, for it calls into play, and either develops or implies the presence of, much more manly qualities than does the other....

"But, as regards the amount of manly sport furnished by the chase of each, the white-tail should stand at the bottom of the list, and the elk and black-tail abreast of the antelope."
- Theodore Roosevelt

 

[OntarioHunter]

And also President Roosevelt:

What! First of all, by ALL accounts Teddy Roosevelt was a lousy shot. By his own definition therefore, he wasn't much of a man. But to put the stalk of a mule deer above that of a whitetail? Pffft! That's ridiculous. He obviously wasn't much of a hunter either. Or he wasn't when he wrote that BS.

 

[Nick87]

.....edited nevermind

 

[Deleted member 28227]

Hmmph, figures. That list mostly is about negotiating life and then dealing with murphy when he shows up, without google. Or being in places w/o service. I'd like to see your list...

"Robert Twigger: Yeah, there are so many strands here, but just coming from the top, it’s got to be that we have so many prosthetic devices, computers, cars, things that actually take out the physical aspect, and if there’s… There are many differences between men and women, but the most obvious one is there’s a physical strength difference. So if you’re not actually having to use your physical strength at all, you’re different from most men that have come before you in history. So then there’s that side. There’s the skill aspect, even small skills like learning to light a fire, which my dad used to do, lighting a fire in the house. Even things like fixing a car, which he did. I can’t even fix my own car now ’cause I don’t know how to do the codes into the computerized bit. It’s kind of endless, really, the way we’ve become so impotent and we’re just kind of like living like kings in this world of largely electronic back up."


"So if you’re not actually having to use your physical strength at all, you’re different from most men that have come before you in history."

The most successful men in history used their brains to convince other men to die for them. Basically every monarchy ever, every general. Muscle is cheap, guile is highly valuable.
Personally I want my son or daughter to learn from Odysseus not Ajax.

"There’s the skill aspect, even small skills like learning to light a fire, which my dad used to do, lighting a fire in the house. Even things like fixing a car, which he did. I can’t even fix my own car now ’cause I don’t know how to do the codes into the computerized bit."

So he's lamenting that he doesn't have the skills to be a man in 2021... cool story bro, guess a real man needs to know how to turn a wrench and read some lines of code. I bought a code reader for my vehicles . My electric weed whacker broke so I took it apart found a solder that failed, pulled out the wire stripers and fixed it. My wife's computer crashed, I pulled out the screw driver, pulled the HD got a new harness from Newegg, got all her files off it, installed a SSD, replaced the ram cards, put in a new fan and boom it works. So it's manly to fix macro machines just not micro ones?

"the way we’ve become so impotent and we’re just kind of like living like kings in this world of largely electronic back up."

The only people who are impotent are those who have not chosen to educate themselves on the tools of our era. Everything is advancing, and it's hard to keep up and learning to learn is the key skill.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So skills everyone should have...

1. Patience/impulse control
- Waiting for a elk to move, sitting in the deer stand, etc
- Waiting in line
- Waiting for your spouse to finish their thought before you open your mouth
- Don't shoot until the right moment

2. Communication
- Be able to write clear directions
- Be able to follow directions
- Be able to communicate your feelings
- Be able to elicit some else's feeling
- Be able to de-escalate a situation
- Read body language of a person and/or animal
- Be able to motivate/manipulate people, understand their motivations and how to get them to do what you want, without fear/threats/ etc.

3. Ability to Lose
- Be able to be ok being wrong
- Know when to concede or retreat or surrender

4. Ability to ask for help

5. Delayed Gratification
-Be able to wait years or decades for a payoff/victory/result, and be comfortable embarking on that journey

6. Flexibility
- Get with the times bro... I think in previous eras paradigms lasted generations now they may change every couple of decades. Success requires one to be able to revisit there 'knowns' and change them.

7. Confidence/ Full Send
- This may seem to conflict with 1. but often you get hurt when you do something halfway, when you dive in... to a lake, off a cliff skiing, marriage... don't hold back put in everything you have.

8. Love someone and yourself

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Personally I think gender roles are an archaic paradigm, as Coleridge wrote; "A great mind must be androgynous." The life skills above are in my mind the most important and those I have struggled with the most in my own life.

If I am blessed with children it will be to teach them these life skills, and yeah a ton of micro skills. I have every intention of teaching my daughter or son how to change a tire/oil, shoot a gun/bow/ butcher an animal, make a fire, drive boats/cars/tractors/4 wheelers, use ropes, read a river, bivouac, read the bible, find allusions in books, read code, make a budget, invest, read the tax code, fix appliance, work with wood, rewire things, etc etc.

I hope I also learn as much from them, and like my father let them change my world.

 

[Akcabin]

I don't have much trouble. I know I'm proud of our kids. My beautiful wife n me decided that we wanted to homeschool our kids after a couple years in public schools. Those teachers have their hands full. And we wanted to be closer as a family.
Worked well for us. They learned how to build their own home and fix their rides. They love the outdoors. Kinda surprised me when they asked that we start raising meat rabbits again after 25 years.
Hey I'm a proud ol man. Daughter works in the arctic as a truck driver slash welder with several certifications.
But we were able to. Maybe that's a factor in our society today. It takes a lot of effort and that effort has to come from all sides.

 

[TOGIE]

"Weak men, kept good in the East through the upbraiding of maiden aunts, often fail in Colorado.

would you look at that. David Starr Jordan was on to something.

 

[El Jason]

I’ve been grinding away at a manly plumbing project. The inspector comes back this morning and it should pass. I’m fully ready to turn in my man card and wear skinny jeans if it means I don’t have to do shit like this.

 

[2rocky]

I’ve been grinding away at a manly plumbing project. The inspector comes back this morning and it should pass. I’m fully ready to turn in my man card and wear skinny jeans if it means I don’t have to do shit like this.

It is also manly to have a career or business that demands your time and pay a contractor for those projects. But I do maintain a fella should be able to stop/fix a leak should one occur. Personally, I'm glad my father taught me how to work with PVC, and that I can do PEX projects. But copper pipe sweating spooks me.

 

[TOGIE]

i'm glad i barely know anything about home repair. some of the folks i know that are handy (or try to be) hardly seem to do anything else with their time.

 

[np307]

"Robert Twigger: Yeah, there are so many strands here, but just coming from the top, it’s got to be that we have so many prosthetic devices, computers, cars, things that actually take out the physical aspect, and if there’s… There are many differences between men and women, but the most obvious one is there’s a physical strength difference. So if you’re not actually having to use your physical strength at all, you’re different from most men that have come before you in history. So then there’s that side. There’s the skill aspect, even small skills like learning to light a fire, which my dad used to do, lighting a fire in the house. Even things like fixing a car, which he did. I can’t even fix my own car now ’cause I don’t know how to do the codes into the computerized bit. It’s kind of endless, really, the way we’ve become so impotent and we’re just kind of like living like kings in this world of largely electronic back up."


"So if you’re not actually having to use your physical strength at all, you’re different from most men that have come before you in history."

The most successful men in history used their brains to convince other men to die for them. Basically every monarchy ever, every general. Muscle is cheap, guile is highly valuable.
Personally I want my son or daughter to learn from Odysseus not Ajax.

"There’s the skill aspect, even small skills like learning to light a fire, which my dad used to do, lighting a fire in the house. Even things like fixing a car, which he did. I can’t even fix my own car now ’cause I don’t know how to do the codes into the computerized bit."

So he's lamenting that he doesn't have the skills to be a man in 2021... cool story bro, guess a real man needs to know how to turn a wrench and read some lines of code. I bought a code reader for my vehicles . My electric weed whacker broke so I took it apart found a solder that failed, pulled out the wire stripers and fixed it. My wife's computer crashed, I pulled out the screw driver, pulled the HD got a new harness from Newegg, got all her files off it, installed a SSD, replaced the ram cards, put in a new fan and boom it works. So it's manly to fix macro machines just not micro ones?

"the way we’ve become so impotent and we’re just kind of like living like kings in this world of largely electronic back up."

The only people who are impotent are those who have not chosen to educate themselves on the tools of our era. Everything is advancing, and it's hard to keep up and learning to learn is the key skill.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So skills everyone should have...

1. Patience/impulse control
- Waiting for a elk to move, sitting in the deer stand, etc
- Waiting in line
- Waiting for your spouse to finish their thought before you open your mouth
- Don't shoot until the right moment

2. Communication
- Be able to write clear directions
- Be able to follow directions
- Be able to communicate your feelings
- Be able to elicit some else's feeling
- Be able to de-escalate a situation
- Read body language of a person and/or animal
- Be able to motivate/manipulate people, understand their motivations and how to get them to do what you want, without fear/threats/ etc.

3. Ability to Lose
- Be able to be ok being wrong
- Know when to concede or retreat or surrender

4. Ability to ask for help

5. Delayed Gratification
-Be able to wait years or decades for a payoff/victory/result, and be comfortable embarking on that journey

6. Flexibility
- Get with the times bro... I think in previous eras paradigms lasted generations now they may change every couple of decades. Success requires one to be able to revisit there 'knowns' and change them.

7. Confidence/ Full Send
- This may seem to conflict with 1. but often you get hurt when you do something halfway, when you dive in... to a lake, off a cliff skiing, marriage... don't hold back put in everything you have.

8. Love someone and yourself

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Personally I think gender roles are an archaic paradigm, as Coleridge wrote; "A great mind must be androgynous." The life skills above are in my mind the most important and those I have struggled with the most in my own life.

If I am blessed with children it will be to teach them these life skills, and yeah a ton of micro skills. I have every intention of teaching my daughter or son how to change a tire/oil, shoot a gun/bow/ butcher an animal, make a fire, drive boats/cars/tractors/4 wheelers, use ropes, read a river, bivouac, read the bible, find allusions in books, read code, make a budget, invest, read the tax code, fix appliance, work with wood, rewire things, etc etc.

I hope I also learn as much from them, and like my father let them change my world.

The car one kills me the most. "These dang computer cars that you have to know how to be a programmer and write code for...."

The number of programming errors on vehicles that cause malfunctions has got to be minute. I've never encountered one or heard of one.

99% of those "computer problems" are fixable by getting a code reader and a wiring diagram. Maybe a couple diagnostic tools for some less common stuff.

 

[El Jason]

It is also manly to have a career or business that demands your time and pay a contractor for those projects. But I do maintain a fella should be able to stop/fix a leak should one occur. Personally, I'm glad my father taught me how to work with PVC, and that I can do PEX projects. But copper pipe sweating spooks me.

I’m screwed either way. I don’t make enough to hire stuff out and still be able to hunt a lot, but neither am I smart enough that this stuff is easy and without challenges and setbacks.

Last night I found a leak in the pre-existing copper I tied into when I water charges the drain system, so I got to make a hurried run to the big orange box before they closed.

It passed inspection, but man I hate plumbing.

 

[El Jason]

i'm glad i barely know anything about home repair. some of the folks i know that are handy (or try to be) hardly seem to do anything else with their time.

I may resemble that.

 

[OntarioHunter]

I’m screwed either way. I don’t make enough to hire stuff out and still be able to hunt a lot, but neither am I smart enough that this stuff is easy and without challenges and setbacks.

Last night I found a leak in the pre-existing copper I tied into when I water charges the drain system, so I got to make a hurried run to the big orange box before they closed.

It passed inspection, but man I hate plumbing.

Copper is a pain in the ass for sure. Thank heaven for modern ABS which has sure made most plumbing MUCH easier today than when we were youngsters.

 

[2rocky]

i'm glad i barely know anything about home repair. some of the folks i know that are handy (or try to be) hardly seem to do anything else with their time.

This is one of those things I'm conflicted on but you are right.

I used to have a FIL who was a "DIY on Everything" kind of guy. Shoe his own horses, grow, cut , bale, stack his own hay, rebuild engines, do all his own mechanic work, etc. and every thing was in a state of "half -done" . Drove me crazy. Always had a dozen projects he had to do and despite living 30 minutes from a great general Elk unit, would never take the time to do more than a dayhunt.

I like Randy's quip about "not being too handy" so you have the time to Hunt & Fish more.