Arizona 10% cap on Nonresidents
- Thread starter nochawk
- Start date
BuzzH
Well-known member
Danr and WH,
Last I checked bighorn sheep, moose, and goats were pretty sought after trophies in WY. I'm not hunting those on OTC tags and each year, NR's with way, way, way fewer points are drawing the units I apply for. Their odds of drawing are way better than mine as well.
WY still give 25% of those tags to NR's each year. Theres likely more Resident demand for those species than your trophy elk tags.
The difference is though, I dont cry and whine about it like the AZ bawl-babies...
Does AZ give 25% of its available sheep tags to NR's? If not, why? Stingy bastards. How about antelope tags? 25% to NR's? Stingy bastards.
Last I checked AZ residents could still hunt archery deer OTC, some archery cow elk hunts are pretty high success, black bear OTC, lion OTC.
You have opportunity, its not my fault you're too stupid to take advantage of it. AZ residents have ample opportunity at big-game OTC each year...FACT.
Oh, and Basser, once again, you're full of crap, you dont have to hire a guide to hunt in a wilderness area in Wyoming...FACT.
I know a couple brokeback Montanans that hunted the Wyoming wilderness last year legally without a hiring a guide..study up Jr.
Last I checked bighorn sheep, moose, and goats were pretty sought after trophies in WY. I'm not hunting those on OTC tags and each year, NR's with way, way, way fewer points are drawing the units I apply for. Their odds of drawing are way better than mine as well.
WY still give 25% of those tags to NR's each year. Theres likely more Resident demand for those species than your trophy elk tags.
The difference is though, I dont cry and whine about it like the AZ bawl-babies...
Does AZ give 25% of its available sheep tags to NR's? If not, why? Stingy bastards. How about antelope tags? 25% to NR's? Stingy bastards.
Last I checked AZ residents could still hunt archery deer OTC, some archery cow elk hunts are pretty high success, black bear OTC, lion OTC.
You have opportunity, its not my fault you're too stupid to take advantage of it. AZ residents have ample opportunity at big-game OTC each year...FACT.
Oh, and Basser, once again, you're full of crap, you dont have to hire a guide to hunt in a wilderness area in Wyoming...FACT.
I know a couple brokeback Montanans that hunted the Wyoming wilderness last year legally without a hiring a guide..study up Jr.
Bottom line is, it is what it is. We have to respect your rights as residents in your state and you have to bide by our rules. Very little land to hunt here vs the big population and limited herds. I am talking elk only and maybe strip deer. The rest are so tough to draw I probably will never get a tag. Doesn't matter if you call us selfish or push some low life outfitter to sue us. You are all welcome here when and if you do get drawn.
BuzzH
Well-known member
Ringer,
I agree, but to say that AZ Residents have to be "stingy" is because they dont get drawn...thats just plain selfish. I proved that WY provides a much more fair system that gives NR's a clear advantage over Residents. Even at that, 75% of the tags go to Residents.
I have no problem with only getting 10% of AZ tags, as long as NR's are guaranteed 10%. However, the "up to" cap is just plain greed on AZ residents part. They arent content with 90%...they need to cut into the NR tags as well. Montana does the same thing with sheep, moose, and goat and I disagree with that too.
I also find it odd that for all the Whiners in AZ...very few apply for out-of-state tags? They find it more fun to bitch about not drawing a strip deer tag or a unit 9 early rifle bull tag. Most can be hunting in Colorado for elk EVERY year within a days drive of anywhere in AZ....
Personally, I dont really care. I just enjoy pointing out the hypocracy of the AZ residents who begged all the NR's to write letters because "we all need to stick together as hunters and for the sake of AZ's wildlife" when their tits were in ringer with the USO lawsuit.
Sure did forget who helped them real, real, real fast...
They werent concerned about anyone but themselves and in hind-sight I should have been more concerned with MY hunting rights as a NR in Arizona. I should have looked out for my best interest and showed them the same compassion I'm now being showed...NONE.
They may have short memories...but I dont.
I agree, but to say that AZ Residents have to be "stingy" is because they dont get drawn...thats just plain selfish. I proved that WY provides a much more fair system that gives NR's a clear advantage over Residents. Even at that, 75% of the tags go to Residents.
I have no problem with only getting 10% of AZ tags, as long as NR's are guaranteed 10%. However, the "up to" cap is just plain greed on AZ residents part. They arent content with 90%...they need to cut into the NR tags as well. Montana does the same thing with sheep, moose, and goat and I disagree with that too.
I also find it odd that for all the Whiners in AZ...very few apply for out-of-state tags? They find it more fun to bitch about not drawing a strip deer tag or a unit 9 early rifle bull tag. Most can be hunting in Colorado for elk EVERY year within a days drive of anywhere in AZ....
Personally, I dont really care. I just enjoy pointing out the hypocracy of the AZ residents who begged all the NR's to write letters because "we all need to stick together as hunters and for the sake of AZ's wildlife" when their tits were in ringer with the USO lawsuit.
Sure did forget who helped them real, real, real fast...
They werent concerned about anyone but themselves and in hind-sight I should have been more concerned with MY hunting rights as a NR in Arizona. I should have looked out for my best interest and showed them the same compassion I'm now being showed...NONE.
They may have short memories...but I dont.
Buzz-I haven't forgotten and do appreciate all the support. I view that fight as one for all western states. Our limpdick G&F handled the whole thing wrong and it took a nasty old Democrat to bail us out! I said then and now that I would be OK with up to 15%. Moot point as the state law has now changed and the legal resources of the state will be used for the next USO. I hope you were kidding about supporting Taulman. No good came from him for his clients or NR hunters in general.
BuzzH
Well-known member
Ringer,
I dont know that Taulman was all wrong...maybe just asked for a bit too much.
As it stands right now, if someone else, or Taulman, sued for a guaranteed 10% for NR...I'd support their fight in a heart-beat.
I dont think a 50-50 split is fair, but I do believe NR's are entitled to a reasonable chance (10-15% guaranteed sounds good to me) and a reasonable number of tags. Not many Arizona Residents seem to give a crap that NR's are now getting hosed big-time. In fact, most seem fine with shafting NR's, never mind the help many NR's gave them in this fight.
Look at the responses from a majority of the Residents on this thread...Basser, Danr, cjcj, etc.
They couldnt give a shit less if a NR ever drew a single permit in AZ.
I honestly dont think I did the right thing supporting the Residents fight, and I sure am not going to make the same mistake twice.
I dont know that Taulman was all wrong...maybe just asked for a bit too much.
As it stands right now, if someone else, or Taulman, sued for a guaranteed 10% for NR...I'd support their fight in a heart-beat.
I dont think a 50-50 split is fair, but I do believe NR's are entitled to a reasonable chance (10-15% guaranteed sounds good to me) and a reasonable number of tags. Not many Arizona Residents seem to give a crap that NR's are now getting hosed big-time. In fact, most seem fine with shafting NR's, never mind the help many NR's gave them in this fight.
Look at the responses from a majority of the Residents on this thread...Basser, Danr, cjcj, etc.
They couldnt give a shit less if a NR ever drew a single permit in AZ.
I honestly dont think I did the right thing supporting the Residents fight, and I sure am not going to make the same mistake twice.
AzSlim
New member
Buzz, you have completely different game populations in the two states. Last year Az issued just under 40,000 deer tags for both whitetail & mule deer, there were less than 1000 antelope tags and about 18,000 elk tags. And a grand total of 72 sheep tags. For these tags we have about 250,000 residents putting in. Chances of getting drawn are pretty slim. I get to hunt cow elk about every third year, have never drawn a bull tag despite that being my first choice. I have never drawn a sheep or lope tag period. Sure, you may not get the Red Desert elk tag you want but you can always buy a general tag and get to HUNT, we don't have that opportunity. Same for deer and goats. I miss hunting in Wy and remember buying a deer tag for $5 and elk for $10 and the elk had a bear tag attached, we didn't even bother to hunt lopes because we didn't care for the meat. Here, if we don't get drawn we don't get to hunt except for archery deer. If you were in this boat I might agree with your argument, but as long as you can get General tags you'll never get your argument to fly.
I was born in Lander and have lots of family in Wy - 4th generation ranchers on one side and Shoshone on the other. I grew up hunting the Wind River rez and the South Pass/Beaver Rim country. I miss it, the country and the hunting and fishing. Soon as my kids get a little older I will be back, chasing cows and fixing fence if nothing else.
I was born in Lander and have lots of family in Wy - 4th generation ranchers on one side and Shoshone on the other. I grew up hunting the Wind River rez and the South Pass/Beaver Rim country. I miss it, the country and the hunting and fishing. Soon as my kids get a little older I will be back, chasing cows and fixing fence if nothing else.
AzSlim
New member
The 'up to 10%' of the tags for NR means that they won't get more than 10%. If all they put in for is the trophy units once that cap is met then NR's are done. If they put in for non-trophy units, say some of the 40 units - 41, 42, 43, etc - they will probably get drawn. But since they don't any of the leftovers of the 10% go to residents. Don't know if that makes sense or not, I understand how it works but there is a disconnect between my brain and fingers at times.
The NR's get 10% put aside for every unit, but if there are not enough NR's to fill all those tags then they go to residents. There, that's better.
The NR's get 10% put aside for every unit, but if there are not enough NR's to fill all those tags then they go to residents. There, that's better.
Nut
New member
danr55 said:Fred, That's the kind of answer I would expect from HoseB or Matt, but not from you.
Dan, that is what I would do if Ohio did a draw and the draw results were as chitty as Arizona's seems to be towards their own residents.
But that is just me and how I alone would handle it. I know it would not be easy for alot of others to do for various reasons.
I am utterly happy that for my whitetail and wild turkey tags are just a walk to the agent,plunk my money down and walk away ready to have the chance to hunt. You can do that also as a non-resident here. (btw when are you going to come here and kill a whitetail?).
http://gf.state.wy.us/downloads/pdf/06AppBooklet/06NRALL.pdf
From the sounds of section i on page 11, NR's are required to hire a guide to hunt big game or trophy hunts in Wilderness areas. My guess is to gain access to private lands I would need to do the same thing since I don't already know somebody in Wyoming that owns land. But I wouldn't know for sure since my mom doesn't let me take my bike around the corner, let alone ride it to another state to hunt
From the sounds of section i on page 11, NR's are required to hire a guide to hunt big game or trophy hunts in Wilderness areas. My guess is to gain access to private lands I would need to do the same thing since I don't already know somebody in Wyoming that owns land. But I wouldn't know for sure since my mom doesn't let me take my bike around the corner, let alone ride it to another state to hunt
BuzzH
Well-known member
I'm not sure...but I believe that the Residents of AZ are also reading impaired.
Giving NR's 10% of your tags still give 90% of the tags to Residents. I'm not asking for an equal chance, only the guarntee of 10% of the tags. Thats not that many tags for all the NR's that apply.
I'll use your sheep example...72 tags issued. 7 would go to NR's and 65 to Residents...WTF is the problem with that?
Early bull tags where they issue 20 permits NR's get 2 Residents get 18, etc. etc. etc.
Who cares what my state does? What about guys that are applying for elk tags in AZ that live in Florida? They dont have elk in Florida, they not only cant apply for an elk in their home state...they also cant buy OTC tags either. Same with Alabama, N. Carolina, Georgia, Hawaii, etc. etc. etc.
Lots of states dont have elk tags available...what excuse are you going to use to screw the residents of those states?
You're looking at it from a very narrow-minded approach...I'm looking at it from the standpoint of some poor bastard in S. Carolina who applies and holds hope for drawing a tag in AZ. The Residents of your state are pissing on him, as theres a very good chance the unit he's applying for will not even have a single NR tag issued...Residents could potentially get all the tags.
Thats just pure crap. That dude religiously supports the AZ G&F to the tune of $100 plus a year...and isnt guaranteed even a CHANCE at a single tag?
Thats not right no matter how you argue it, you should be afforded the guarantee that you will be drawing for an available tag...in particular for over $100 fronted for a license you'll never use unless you draw.
But, like I said, personally, I dont care all that much. I'll likely draw a tag or two in AZ and I apply for a lot of states. I've already drawn some AZ tags, I got mine, so why give a shit about anyone else...that attitude should put me in line with the Residents of AZ.
I just cant make myself be such a prick though...downfall on my part I guess.
I still want to believe that hunters arent a bunch of selfish, jealous, and greedy individuals...I'm sorry to say in the current hunting world...that just isnt the reality. Its all about ME and to hell with everyone else. Pretty sad.
Giving NR's 10% of your tags still give 90% of the tags to Residents. I'm not asking for an equal chance, only the guarntee of 10% of the tags. Thats not that many tags for all the NR's that apply.
I'll use your sheep example...72 tags issued. 7 would go to NR's and 65 to Residents...WTF is the problem with that?
Early bull tags where they issue 20 permits NR's get 2 Residents get 18, etc. etc. etc.
Who cares what my state does? What about guys that are applying for elk tags in AZ that live in Florida? They dont have elk in Florida, they not only cant apply for an elk in their home state...they also cant buy OTC tags either. Same with Alabama, N. Carolina, Georgia, Hawaii, etc. etc. etc.
Lots of states dont have elk tags available...what excuse are you going to use to screw the residents of those states?
You're looking at it from a very narrow-minded approach...I'm looking at it from the standpoint of some poor bastard in S. Carolina who applies and holds hope for drawing a tag in AZ. The Residents of your state are pissing on him, as theres a very good chance the unit he's applying for will not even have a single NR tag issued...Residents could potentially get all the tags.
Thats just pure crap. That dude religiously supports the AZ G&F to the tune of $100 plus a year...and isnt guaranteed even a CHANCE at a single tag?
Thats not right no matter how you argue it, you should be afforded the guarantee that you will be drawing for an available tag...in particular for over $100 fronted for a license you'll never use unless you draw.
But, like I said, personally, I dont care all that much. I'll likely draw a tag or two in AZ and I apply for a lot of states. I've already drawn some AZ tags, I got mine, so why give a shit about anyone else...that attitude should put me in line with the Residents of AZ.
I just cant make myself be such a prick though...downfall on my part I guess.
I still want to believe that hunters arent a bunch of selfish, jealous, and greedy individuals...I'm sorry to say in the current hunting world...that just isnt the reality. Its all about ME and to hell with everyone else. Pretty sad.
BuzzH
Well-known member
Basser,
Keep digging grasshopper...you might LEARN something yet today.
On second thought...you must be like the rest of the AZ residents who have a hard time reading regulations through the alligator tears and red eyes caused from all the crying about not drawing any tags in AZ...
Each resident of Wyoming is able to sign off for 2 NR hunters per year to allow them access to Wilderness areas.
In other words...you dont have to hire a guide.
You're right, you dont know for sure...but I do.
AZslim,
You're wrong with an UP TO 10% cap, in the hard to draw units there is a very high liklihood that NO NR's will be drawn. There is no guarantee or set aside tag numbers strictly for NR's and thats the problem I have with it. Residents get all the chances at 90% of the tags and also get a chance at the remaining 10%.
Keep digging grasshopper...you might LEARN something yet today.
On second thought...you must be like the rest of the AZ residents who have a hard time reading regulations through the alligator tears and red eyes caused from all the crying about not drawing any tags in AZ...
Each resident of Wyoming is able to sign off for 2 NR hunters per year to allow them access to Wilderness areas.
In other words...you dont have to hire a guide.
You're right, you dont know for sure...but I do.
AZslim,
You're wrong with an UP TO 10% cap, in the hard to draw units there is a very high liklihood that NO NR's will be drawn. There is no guarantee or set aside tag numbers strictly for NR's and thats the problem I have with it. Residents get all the chances at 90% of the tags and also get a chance at the remaining 10%.
Washington Hunter
Well-known member
Buzz, the answer is simple for the guys who live in those states...either apply for easy to draw units in Arizona, rather than the "trophy units," or apply for other states like Colorado, Wyoming, or Montana. Simple enough. But I'm sure you already knew that.
BuzzH
Well-known member
WH, I agree...
And the same applies for the whiney AZ residents, they're free to apply in easier to draw units in AZ, or Colorado, Wyoming or Montana...simple enough.
Then they can let loose of a measley 10% of their tags...
And the same applies for the whiney AZ residents, they're free to apply in easier to draw units in AZ, or Colorado, Wyoming or Montana...simple enough.
Then they can let loose of a measley 10% of their tags...
Washington Hunter
Well-known member
Buzz, so the Wyoming resident doesn't need to accompany the non-resident hunters in the Wilderness Area? Just sign off and that's it?
cjcj
New member
[Quote, Buzz]
Does AZ give 25% of its available sheep tags to NR's? If not, why? Stingy bastards. How about antelope tags? 25% to NR's? Stingy bastards.
Buzz get real! I have been trying to get a bighorn tag for 40yrs.... and I have only got 1 lope and that was like 12 years ago.....Why would /should AZ give any Buffalo/Bighorn/antelope tags to non-residents? Call it what you want ... but I live here and spend more taxes and money ... than any non-resident.....you can have leftover tags... but 10% on once in a lifetime is plenty generous if you ask me... Don`t play assclown and compare antelope.
Does AZ give 25% of its available sheep tags to NR's? If not, why? Stingy bastards. How about antelope tags? 25% to NR's? Stingy bastards.
Buzz get real! I have been trying to get a bighorn tag for 40yrs.... and I have only got 1 lope and that was like 12 years ago.....Why would /should AZ give any Buffalo/Bighorn/antelope tags to non-residents? Call it what you want ... but I live here and spend more taxes and money ... than any non-resident.....you can have leftover tags... but 10% on once in a lifetime is plenty generous if you ask me... Don`t play assclown and compare antelope.
BuzzH
Well-known member
The regs are pretty vague.
I've signed off for a few people, but we were always hunting together. From all the wardens and G&F folks I talked to they said you just have to be hunting out of the same camp. I'm not acting as a "guide" and when I get the license, its stated right on it that I'm not acting as a guide and its illegal for me to be compensated. Its strictly so that as a Resident I can hunt with out-of-state family and friends in wilderness areas.
Its a good deal...something Arizona Residents would be against as it gives a NR a chance to hunt...
I've signed off for a few people, but we were always hunting together. From all the wardens and G&F folks I talked to they said you just have to be hunting out of the same camp. I'm not acting as a "guide" and when I get the license, its stated right on it that I'm not acting as a guide and its illegal for me to be compensated. Its strictly so that as a Resident I can hunt with out-of-state family and friends in wilderness areas.
Its a good deal...something Arizona Residents would be against as it gives a NR a chance to hunt...
BuzzH
Well-known member
cjcj,
I've been applying for sheep for 25 years in MT and I've never drawn a sheep tag either. I have NR buddies that have though. I have a list a mile long of family and friends that have applied for 20+ years in MT as residents and never drawn.
I've been applying for a sheep tag in WY for 8 years and I've never drawn either...and theres Residents in WY that have applied for 40 years and never drawn either...yet WY still gives a guaranteed 25% to NR's. We're comparing the same thing...sheep in each state.
Cry me a river over not drawing a sheep tag in AZ.
Oh, and cjcj, since you're another reading impaired Arizonan...I'm not guaranteed 10% of the once-in-a-lifetime species...thats the point being missed. Are the public schools in AZ that bad with teaching comprehension?
I've been applying for sheep for 25 years in MT and I've never drawn a sheep tag either. I have NR buddies that have though. I have a list a mile long of family and friends that have applied for 20+ years in MT as residents and never drawn.
I've been applying for a sheep tag in WY for 8 years and I've never drawn either...and theres Residents in WY that have applied for 40 years and never drawn either...yet WY still gives a guaranteed 25% to NR's. We're comparing the same thing...sheep in each state.
Cry me a river over not drawing a sheep tag in AZ.
Oh, and cjcj, since you're another reading impaired Arizonan...I'm not guaranteed 10% of the once-in-a-lifetime species...thats the point being missed. Are the public schools in AZ that bad with teaching comprehension?
AzSlim
New member
Buzz, you're wrong - 10% of the tags will go to NR's, but no more than 10%. That amount is set aside in a seperate NR draw and if they aren't issued to someone they go into the resident pool. Most NR's only put in for the trophy units. You want to get a bull tag, apply for one of the Limited Opportunity hunts and you will more than likely get drawn on your first or second try. Why, because very few NR's put in for them because you really have to work to find an elk.
And the majority of us aren't whining about 10%, we just get accused of it. Kinda stupid for me to whine about my business since I do a little guiding.
And the majority of us aren't whining about 10%, we just get accused of it. Kinda stupid for me to whine about my business since I do a little guiding.
BuzzH
Well-known member
AZslim,
No, I'm not wrong. There is no guaranteed NR tags, and thats a fact.
Read this from the orginal article:
In January, Representative Jerry Weiers introduced legislation that would cap nonresidents at no more than 10% of the hunts in any drawing. Insuring resident hunters (ourselves and our children ) would have at least 90% of this states hunting opportunities. This legislation strengthens a new Commission rule that was adopted last winter.
No, I'm not wrong. There is no guaranteed NR tags, and thats a fact.
Read this from the orginal article:
In January, Representative Jerry Weiers introduced legislation that would cap nonresidents at no more than 10% of the hunts in any drawing. Insuring resident hunters (ourselves and our children ) would have at least 90% of this states hunting opportunities. This legislation strengthens a new Commission rule that was adopted last winter.
