animal movement

[snake river rufus]

If, as some claim, kinetic energy transfers to an animal that animal should move. So How far have you seen an animal move from the bullets strike?

 

[elk_hunter]

Way more than 6 feet, if I understand the poll question. I shot a little muley buck this year in NV and it went a lot further than 6 feet upon bullet impact. Is that what you're asking?

 

[snake river rufus]

I'm asking how far the impact of the bullet caused the animal to move, not how far the animal moved under it's own power. Are you saying that the animal you hit was lifted off it's feet and moved more than 6 ft?

 

[Ridge Runner]

What happens when you shoot a watermelon or a jug full liquid. the energy you see from that is what is absorbed in tissue mass nd organs through out the body.

 

[elk_hunter]

I'm asking how far the impact of the bullet caused the animal to move, not how far the animal moved under it's own power. Are you saying that the animal you hit was lifted off it's feet and moved more than 6 ft?

Ah, if that's what you're after, my response is in the neighborhood of a flinch.

 

[1_pointer]

Less than I do from the recoil...

Equal and opposite and all that other physics mumbo jumbo.

 

[A-con]

A friend once shot a small Blacktail buck with a 140 gr, .277 hollow point.
Impact velocity around 2,900 fps. On impact the buck (75 lbs on the hoof) was lifted off his feet and did a complete barrel roll in mid air.

 

[MattK]

According to Mythbusters (and going along with 1 pointer), an animal (deer/ elk etc) will do little more than "flinch" from a bullets impact. Even with a bullet proof vest with a 357 it would not "push" an average person back hardly at all. It would leave one hell of a bruise however. If you are dealing with a bird or gopher, the bullet will do a lot on impact. I had a deer do a big old flip backwards. At the time I thought it was the impact of the bullet...now I know it was dying reflex that caused it flop.

 

[Calif. Hunter]

Big game - a flinch. A ground squirrel with an 85 gr Ballistic Tip from my .257 Wthby - several feet and multiple chunks.

 

[snake river rufus]

According to Mythbusters (and going along with 1 pointer), an animal (deer/ elk etc) will do little more than "flinch" from a bullets impact. Even with a bullet proof vest with a 357 it would not "push" an average person back hardly at all. It would leave one hell of a bruise however. If you are dealing with a bird or gopher, the bullet will do a lot on impact. I had a deer do a big old flip backwards. At the time I thought it was the impact of the bullet...now I know it was dying reflex that caused it flop.

And yet your (self-admitted) idol insists that bullets "transmit" energy if the bullet is retained in the body.
He is wrong by the way, again.
I have seen the owner of Second Chance body armor, Richard Davis, shoot himself with a .44 magnum to prove his product. Are you sure that "It would leave one hell of a bruise "? You would be wrong. At the same shoot Richard, wearing a rifle rated vest, was shot by an assistant with a .308 rifle.
He was standing on one foot waving his arms saying " I hope I don't go flying through the air like movie actors do". Or words to that effect. Again. no bruise.

 

[snake river rufus]

What happens when you shoot a watermelon or a jug full liquid. the energy you see from that is what is absorbed in tissue mass nd organs through out the body.

Are you sure that flesh and bone show the same hydraulic effect as water?
To be fair an object in flight does push a layer or cushion of air in front of it and the pressure of that air does transmit some energy. But that is not the same as saying the bullet transmits energy.

 

[Der Aulte Jaeger]

Flesh does behave similarly to water. Flesh and Bone does not. Most folks usually speak of hydrostatic shock when speaking of the effect of the bullet on lung and heart tissue. The lungs especially behave far different than other bodily tissue and fluids with hydrostatic or hydrodynamic shock as it can and does shred them due to air spaces mixed with fluids. Divers in and around explosions have to worry about similar effect with their lungs and other air filled cavities. Deer and or other big game that flip or apparently gets knocked backward when hit, do so due to muscle reaction and not as a primary effect of the bullet's impact. To gain a better appreciation of knockdown power one needs to read or witness a ballistic pendulum in action.

Kinetic Energy does transfer into an animal upon impact but does so in a splash fashion, radiating, into and even back out from the impact and along the wound channel hence that elongated bell shape we see in ballistic gel. Momentum is much more linear and accounts for the bullets path and deviations as obstructions are hit. Momentum is also transferred but it's value is a far cry from the ft lbs of energy for most loads so it doesn't tend to move a person or larger animal back much at all. Mixing momentum with bullet diameter you can get some fascinating numbers such as the Taylor Knock out factors. A number is the result and indicates the knock out capability of that round agasint a large animal such as Elephant. In other words the bullet misses that small opening in the elephants thick skull and hits major bone, stopping quickly. What's the chance of that impact knocking the elephant to it's knees? The TKO factor gives one man's idea of that.

 

[montanadogs]

Flesh does behave similarly to water. Flesh and Bone does not. Most folks usually speak of hydrostatic shock when speaking of the effect of the bullet on lung and heart tissue. The lungs especially behave far different than other bodily tissue and fluids with hydrostatic or hydrodynamic shock as it can and does shred them due to air spaces mixed with fluids. Divers in and around explosions have to worry about similar effect with their lungs and other air filled cavities. Deer and or other big game that flip or apparently gets knocked backward when hit, do so due to muscle reaction and not as a primary effect of the bullet's impact. To gain a better appreciation of knockdown power one needs to read or witness a ballistic pendulum in action.

Kinetic Energy does transfer into an animal upon impact but does so in a splash fashion, radiating, into and even back out from the impact and along the wound channel hence that elongated bell shape we see in ballistic gel. Momentum is much more linear and accounts for the bullets path and deviations as obstructions are hit. Momentum is also transferred but it's value is a far cry from the ft lbs of energy for most loads so it doesn't tend to move a person or larger animal back much at all. Mixing momentum with bullet diameter you can get some fascinating numbers such as the Taylor Knock out factors. A number is the result and indicates the knock out capability of that round agasint a large animal such as Elephant. In other words the bullet misses that small opening in the elephants thick skull and hits major bone, stopping quickly. What's the chance of that impact knocking the elephant to it's knees? The TKO factor gives one man's idea of that.

I agree, if you look at the last episode "montana elk" you'll see what Jaeger is talking about. You will see a wave like action upon impact.

 

[----]

I used to shoot partitions.

I was still hunting through a big stand of yellow pine here in Western MT. A big whitetail ran by my chasing a doe, and gave me a shot from about 25 yards off quartering away down hill. I hit him high in the shoulder, it blew him off his feet, he barrel rolled a couple times down the hill, shattering one of the smaller ponderosas in the process. They definitely will go flying from the impact.

Unfortunately, due to the inferior design of the partition (not having a polymer tip), the bullet wouldn't penetrate at that distance with the 4000 fps my 7mm MAG shoots, and the bullet didn't even get through the hide. Found it sitting on the forest floor in perfect, reload-able condition. Aside from a head ache and a bruise, that buck still roams the woods today, and is of B&C proportions.

And that's why you should never shoot partitions.

 

[Der Aulte Jaeger]

Randy, there's a way or two that a bullet can knock an animal off it's feet but it's due more to the animals balance or lack thereof, where it's feet were placed at impact, the direction it was moving, how the animal flinches or reacts to the strike and where the bullet struck. In judo we use that principle a lot as if and when you catch someone with no support or weak support under one side or the other it takes very little pressure to dump them. Other than that research and science shows a bullet's energy or momentum can't cause it happen as the size difference prevents it. Well with hunting arms and big game it doesn't happen but as someone above observed take a big bullet and a little squirrel and voila--the squirrel gets knocked for a loop, or at least it's pieces do!

 

[MN Public Hunter]

Mine moves 2-4 feet as it drops in it's tracks after I shoot it! LOL

 

[----]

Randy, there's a way or two that a bullet can knock an animal off it's feet but it's due more to the animals balance or lack thereof, where it's feet were placed at impact, the direction it was moving, how the animal flinches or reacts to the strike and where the bullet struck. In judo we use that principle a lot as if and when you catch someone with no support or weak support under one side or the other it takes very little pressure to dump them. Other than that research and science shows a bullet's energy or momentum can't cause it happen as the size difference prevents it. Well with hunting arms and big game it doesn't happen but as someone above observed take a big bullet and a little squirrel and voila--the squirrel gets knocked for a loop, or at least it's pieces do!

I guess sarcasm doesn't translate well to text.

 

[Der Aulte Jaeger]

Good reply! LOL--definately got a chuckle out of me on that one!

 

[Der Aulte Jaeger]

Randy - Good reply! LOL--definately got a chuckle out of me on that one!

Minn Hunter - another good one read it twice and then the light went on!