Hunt Talk Radio - Look for it on your favorite Podcast platform

And the lies continue..

INMT

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 27, 2023
Messages
116
I know it's just an opinion piece, but once the misinformation is out there it is hard to change some minds. It seems like the anti's just pull "facts" from thin air.


From the article:

"Keep in mind that all grizzly bear hunting is trophy hunting. There is no subsistence hunting for bears in the lower 48. People do not eat bear meat and Montana hunting regulations do not require black bear hunters to eat the meat. To the contrary, hunters of elk, deer and other species can be fined if they waste the meat."

Looks like Mr. Bader needs to go back to elementary school to learn how to read. Page 6 in the 2024 MT Black Bear regs: Waste of Game (MCA 87-6-205). And I don't know about other folks on here, but every bear hunter I know harvests and eats the meat. Not to mention the fat!

And:

"Montana might use private citizens to remove bears with a history of management or habituation. This is not hunting. Since most bears with a management history are radio-collared, hunters might be directed to the bear’s location."


Just, WOW!!! Where in the hell do these people come up with this BS ?!?
 
I can’t even understand the ignorance, or that this would get published by the paper! 🤣🤣🤣 no fact checker????
 
Guy is an idiot, I will completely agree, but regs are different in different places. Here in AB it’s wasting the hide you get fined for, you do not have to harvest the meat. I still do, cause bear hams and bear grease are life, but it’s not required by regs.
 
As much as that guy is full of crap regarding the regulations, with the decision-making process in Montana regarding game wildlife management these days, it doesn't give me a warm fuzzy feeling turning over grizzly bear management to them. They have enough trouble trying to manage deer, elk, pronghorn, etc. Could be a total disaster if the Feds turn over management to the State.

I guess the worst they can do is screw it up royally and get them relisted.
 
As much as that guy is full of crap regarding the regulations, with the decision-making process in Montana regarding game wildlife management these days, it doesn't give me a warm fuzzy feeling turning over grizzly bear management to them. They have enough trouble trying to manage deer, elk, pronghorn, etc. Could be a total disaster if the Feds turn over management to the State.

I guess the worst they can do is screw it up royally and get them relisted.
I serioudly doubt that MT would manage them like Mule deer.
 
Guy is an idiot, I will completely agree, but regs are different in different places. Here in AB it’s wasting the hide you get fined for, you do not have to harvest the meat. I still do, cause bear hams and bear grease are life, but it’s not required by regs.

No one will argue regs differ state by state. This guy was writing a piece referring to MT. And you are required to harvest the mea in MT
 
As much as that guy is full of crap regarding the regulations, with the decision-making process in Montana regarding game wildlife management these days, it doesn't give me a warm fuzzy feeling turning over grizzly bear management to them. They have enough trouble trying to manage deer, elk, pronghorn, etc. Could be a total disaster if the Feds turn over management to the State.

I guess the worst they can do is screw it up royally and get them relisted.

I tend to agree with you on that one buzz. I can’t imagine the MT Leg doing much these days except making decisions that has grizzlies relisted. I posted the article to showcase the craziness of the writers inaccuracies.
 
As much as that guy is full of crap regarding the regulations, with the decision-making process in Montana regarding game wildlife management these days, it doesn't give me a warm fuzzy feeling turning over grizzly bear management to them. They have enough trouble trying to manage deer, elk, pronghorn, etc. Could be a total disaster if the Feds turn over management to the State.

I guess the worst they can do is screw it up royally and get them relisted.

I'd say my experience with FWP and the Gov's office on grizz is far different than what a lot of folks want to believe.

If you look through SB 295, you will see a pretty solid approach legislatively to the issue. That bill was done at the request of, and through the heavy-handed work of, the agency & the governor's office. Same with bills to unring some bells that got rung in 2021, and their work to kill bad bills in 23 was the only reason that they failed on the House side. Even then, those votes were close to going south due to the overwhelming anti-carnivore sentiment that gets displayed by any number of people who come to Helena.

I can't speak for ID or WY, but for MT, on Griz - it isn't in a bad spot, once the legislature gets calmed down. I would expect to see the Gov's office and agency continue to work to establish better regulatory frameworks on Griz.
 
The yet-to-be-adopted Montana Grizzly Bear Management Plan is well written in my opinion, and if followed, most of the concerns of those opposed to State Management, outside of the emotional ones, are addressed.


Much like the newly adopted elk plan, the big question, and a valid one based upon prior behavior, is whether or not FWP will adhere to the plan, and whether or not the legislature will inject botulism into the sausage.
 
As much as that guy is full of crap regarding the regulations, with the decision-making process in Montana regarding game wildlife management these days, it doesn't give me a warm fuzzy feeling turning over grizzly bear management to them. They have enough trouble trying to manage deer, elk, pronghorn, etc. Could be a total disaster if the Feds turn over management to the State.

I guess the worst they can do is screw it up royally and get them relisted.
FWP managing grizzlies is a far better scenario than the current situation. Regardless of what you think they have done with ungulates, the need for their current and continued management at the state level is simply an nonnegotiable. Wolves were given back to the state and there hasn't been a need to relist. Conflating an opinion on the state's management of other species with the overdue need to return grizzly management to the the state is just as dangerous as misquoting regulations and promoting misinformation.
 
FWP managing grizzlies is a far better scenario than the current situation. Regardless of what you think they have done with ungulates, the need for their current and continued management at the state level is simply an nonnegotiable. Wolves were given back to the state and there hasn't been a need to relist. Conflating an opinion on the state's management of other species with the overdue need to return grizzly management to the the state is just as dangerous as misquoting regulations and promoting misinformation.
Don't think so, the results of mismanagement of grizzly bears at the State level would be a disaster and once relisted, they're never going to be off the list.

Wolves that have litters, and are short lived species, is not the same as long lived bears with low fecundity.

In other words, you can screw up pretty bad with wolves and still come out of it pretty easily looking like a hero. Do it with grizzly bears and you can stick a fork in state management ever happening again, and you'll look like a zero.

If you want a classic example of mismanaging a species with low fecundity, I'll point you to the native Mountain goat herds in Montana. Classic case of the state grossly mismanaging a species that can't tolerate much, if any, hunting pressure. In particular the female segment of the population, which the FWP killed with glee. To further the illustration, it wasn't like there was no existing studies out there that described harvest levels that were appropriate for native goat herds just to our North.

I don't feel secure making the claim that grizzlies are better off being managed by a State or that they would do a proper job. As has been noted, the current crop of Legislators. Governor, and appointed leadership in Montana doesn't invoke a feeling of assurance.

Obviously, you feel differently. But, make NO mistake, we aren't getting 2 bites at the apple on this deal, and it has to be done right.
 
Don't think so, the results of mismanagement of grizzly bears at the State level would be a disaster and once relisted, they're never going to be off the list.

Wolves that have litters, and are short lived species, is not the same as long lived bears with low fecundity.

In other words, you can screw up pretty bad with wolves and still come out of it pretty easily looking like a hero. Do it with grizzly bears and you can stick a fork in state management ever happening again, and you'll look like a zero.

If you want a classic example of mismanaging a species with low fecundity, I'll point you to the native Mountain goat herds in Montana. Classic case of the state grossly mismanaging a species that can't tolerate much, if any, hunting pressure. In particular the female segment of the population, which the FWP killed with glee. To further the illustration, it wasn't like there was no existing studies out there that described harvest levels that were appropriate for native goat herds just to our North.

I don't feel secure making the claim that grizzlies are better off being managed by a State or that they would do a proper job. As has been noted, the current crop of Legislators. Governor, and appointed leadership in Montana doesn't invoke a feeling of assurance.

Obviously, you feel differently. But, make NO mistake, we aren't getting 2 bites at the apple on this deal, and it has to be done right.
10 yrs ago I would’ve disagreed with you but MTFWP has done the “hold my beer and watch this so often” I believe you are correct…
 
At times, I wonder if it has occurred to various state level politicians, that it is their attitudes involving grizzly bears that is largely the reason the bears are still listed.

Presently every Montana GOP politician with ambition is running for the eastern district seat, to replace Rosendale. I do not think there is one that would do the right thing with grizzly bear management, if they held that sort of power.

While Mike Bader's opinion piece is inaccurate and full of hyperbole, he is the ying to the opposite side's yang.

It is quite a conservation success that in my adulthood, the grizzly bear has gone from being very much at risk of disappearing from the lower 48, to now being seen in places that they have not been seen in a hundred years.

Grizzlies will always be a very polarizing issue. Every decision made concerning them, will be challenged in court, for forever.
 
At times, I wonder if it has occurred to various state level politicians, that it is their attitudes involving grizzly bears that is largely the reason the bears are still listed.

Presently every Montana GOP politician with ambition is running for the eastern district seat, to replace Rosendale. I do not think there is one that would do the right thing with grizzly bear management, if they held that sort of power.

I've been working in this space since 2002. I can honestly say that the sentiment towards both the ESA and the critters it protects has always been difficult and problematic. However, the attitude and the legislative actions are two different things and again - after the glut of bad bills in 2021, 2023 saw a reversal of some of that as the state has to relearn how to govern under a new administration.

Bogner & Krautter would be good on this issue. Both are good people.


Grizzlies will always be a very polarizing issue. Every decision made concerning them, will be challenged in court, for forever.

110% agree. The litigation will not stop, so the plans must be bullet proof to survive litigation.
 
FWP managing grizzlies is a far better scenario than the current situation. Regardless of what you think they have done with ungulates, the need for their current and continued management at the state level is simply a nonnegotiable. Wolves were given back to the state and there hasn't been a need to relist. Conflating an opinion on the state's management of other species with the overdue need to return grizzly management to the the state is just as dangerous as misquoting regulations and promoting misinformation.
It’s mostly a political slight being thrown at the dept.. they’ll do fine with g-bear management.
 
It’s mostly a political slight being thrown at the dept.. they’ll do fine with g-bear management.

I think it is more a distrust of what the various state legislatures and governors will direct the Fish and Game departments to do, that is the hold up.
 
I have eaten grizzly meat. It's not bad. And it wasn't douched with spicy marinade and smothered in smoke. If grizzlies do again become legal to hunt in Montana, the law should require that hunters salvage the meat.
 
Caribou Gear

Forum statistics

Threads
111,759
Messages
1,969,087
Members
35,309
Latest member
ChairMtn
Back
Top