And the Hits just keep on coming....WY now.

[Irrelevant]

How different much different is this than the European model? When the end result is only the wealthy can hunt does it really matter how we got there? I mean even if residents still have great access they're just a larger class of landed gentry.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

How different much different is this than the European model? When the end result is only the wealthy can hunt does it really matter how we got there? I mean even if residents still have great access they're just a larger class of landed gentry.

Add in PLT advocates....

 

[blueridge]

I can see odds going into the sh!tter next year as people decide to burn and get out. Glad I burned my 2 elk points in special this year. Hope creep doesn’t get me. I was going to put in for NM and if I draw change my WY app to an undrawable unit and bank my points for another year, with the hope that the this year’s extra point would be sufficient in the regular draw in ‘22. All bets are off with all of these changes.

Preference points were supposed to give some element of predictability. With every state constantly changing the chess pieces around, the whole thing (western big game app strategy) is devolving into chaos.

 

[Deleted member 18333]

How different much different is this than the European model? When the end result is only the wealthy can hunt does it really matter how we got there? I mean even if residents still have great access they're just a larger class of landed gentry.

What price for a NR wyo elk tag is the line for common man can afford and only wealthy can afford? Personally, I feel its significantly higher than what's proposed in this bill.

 

[Carnage2011]

Arizona when you factor in point fees and a license every 6-10 years is more like $2k

I mean if we are cherry picking facts then you are right, but you can use that license and hunt deer or birds ever year in AZ. So to say that equates into the cost of an elk tag is misleading. The minimal app fee is a part of it for sure.
Nevada on the other hand is expensive when you add in points and license fees. Especially when you may not draw a deer tag for a decade in some cases.

Good for Wyoming in this case. They are aligning with other states and allocating more to their residents.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

I can see odds going into the sh!tter next year as people decide to burn and get out. Glad I burned my 2 elk points in special this year. Hope creep doesn’t get me. I was going to put in for NM and if I draw change my WY app to an undrawable unit and bank my points for another year, with the hope that the this year’s extra point would be sufficient in the regular draw in ‘22. All bets are off with all of these changes.

Preference points were supposed to give some element of predictability. With every state constantly changing the chess pieces around, the whole thing (western big game app strategy) is devolving into chaos.

Seems like outfitters are out to get their's
Residents don't give a crap unless it effects them.

Why do we just make all NR tags private land only, make them $2000 with an unlimited quota, you just have to purchase them from a landowner. Keeps all the pesky NR, on private land/fully guided/and paying for the whole system/ and gives the residents some breathing room.

Or you know, remember we aren't 5 and like you know the concept of sharing.

Also... do we no see the problem with telling people to F-off unless they are residents. Might that give them incentive to move to the west.... doesn't that lead to less habitat and less elk for everyone.

Wouldn't literally the best case scenario be if more people lived in apartments in cities and then came out to visit?

 

[Nameless Range]

How different much different is this than the European model? When the end result is only the wealthy can hunt does it really matter how we got there? I mean even if residents still have great access they're just a larger class of landed gentry.

All due respect, I don't know how much that is true. For as long as I have been alive Montana and WY have been ranked in the high 40s in terms of wages among the states. MT was 49th only a couple years ago. I know that's not what you are talking about, but landed gentry seems a bit rough.

Montana is showing that it may be trend to bend residents over in favor of the NR, because NRs are where the money is at. It's a damn shame all around, but it's not a surprise to me. It may sound defeatist, and I have nothing but respect for the non resident hunter of which I have never been, but it feels like the battle for the average guy's ability to hunt will have to be won from the resident perspective first, if it is to persist at all. Maybe that is a tactical mistake.

That all may be changing though. If America were a community, the west is becoming the rich part of town. It's coming to you too Wyoming. You're just a little behind. Perpetual growth has it's obvious diminishment in opportunity to something non-zero but close enough to nothing that we should be concerned, but we should all expect that those to whom the wildlife belong will pinch those to whom it does not first.

 

[bullbugle]

Bummer for the NRs for sure if it passes. I'm so pessimistic about my ability to draw a tag as a resident, based on past experience, that this doesn't even get me excited in regards to how it would affect me. I'm pretty sure my streak of never drawing anything that isn't guaranteed or darn near will continue regardless of whether there is a slight uptick in resident tag allocation.

As far as price increases go, I'm supportive of that across the board. It's unacceptable to me that demand for our resources is through the roof, but we don't capitalize off of that more and put those dollars towards wildlife habitat. How about some incremental common sense changes at the very least? 34 bucks for a NR doe tag seems awful low to me. How about we up those to at least what we charge for a NR turkey tag, or at least bump em up to 50? That seems fair. Hell, tack a 20 dollar bill on all my resident tags every couple of years, I'm fine with it, just put that money towards habitat and let's try to at least keep what we have animal and habitat wise so the system doesn't crash. With all the increased pressure on our wildlife and their habitat, I think we need to proactively start finding ways to pump more money into conservation before its too late.

 

[rwc101]

Or you know, remember we aren't 5 and like you know the concept of sharing.

I get what you're saying, but...what you sharin' Massachusetts?

 

[Deleted member 28227]

All due respect, I don't know how much that is true. For as long as I have been alive Montana and WY have been ranked in the high 40s in terms of wages among the states. MT was 49th only a couple years ago. I know that's not what you are talking about, but landed gentry seems a bit rough.

Montana is showing that it may be trend to bend residents over in favor of the NR, because NRs are where the money is at. It's a damn shame all around, but it's not a surprise to me. It may sound defeatist, and I have nothing but respect for the non resident hunter of which I have never been, but it feels like the battle for the average guy's ability to hunt will have to be won from the resident perspective first, if it is to persist at all. Maybe that is a tactical mistake.

That all may be changing though. If America were a community, the west is becoming the rich part of town. It's coming to you too Wyoming. You're just a little behind. Perpetual growth has it's obvious diminishment in opportunity to something non-zero but close enough to nothing that we should be concerned, but we should all expect that those to whom the wildlife belong will pinch those to whom it does not first.

I wonder how many of the landowners behind the various MT bills have been landowner in MT for more than 10 years?

 

[Deleted member 28227]

I get what you're saying, but...what you sharin' Massachusetts?

well we invented your vaccine...so there's that

 

[Falcon75]

My only takeaway from all of this is that my dreams of hunting the bighorns for elk with my bow have been crushed. Then set on fire.

I feel the same way I got 7 points somehow and was thinking that was what I would do and then hunt general after that. Wish I put in this year so I could burn points on a general. Look at the bright side you can still get a point in Montana so you can participate in the massacre that will happen there next year. It will just be a little north of what you originally thought.

 

[Nameless Range]

I wonder how many of the landowners behind the various MT bills have been landowner in MT for more than 10 years?

Ha! That is a fascinating question, and one that could be answered with available data, but God I'm burnt out!

 

[rwc101]

well we invented your vaccine...so there's that

1. Eyeroll
2. I'd rather have clam chowder.

 

[Hunt West]

What price for a NR wyo elk tag is the line for common man can afford and only wealthy can afford? Personally, I feel its significantly higher than what's proposed in this bill.

The cheap NR youth any elk/deer/antelope tags can go too. Make a youth price on the type 4,5,6,7 tags if they have to have a “special fee” And yes I have kids before anyone starts the “oh the children” posts.

 

[Deleted member 16014]

So for those who feel this will lead to less support for public land hunting or public land in general, what do you mean exactly? I'm not saying you're wrong just help me understand, I've never lived in a non-rocky mountain state. I already support public land ownership and recreation (and engage in it) in lots of states that I'll never hunt in.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

Ha! That is a fascinating question, and one that could be answered with available data, but God I'm burnt out!

Fair you really did the full court press for us.

 

[rwc101]

So for those who feel this will lead to less support for public land hunting or public land in general, what do you mean exactly? I'm not saying you're wrong just help me understand, I've never lived in a non-rocky mountain state. I already support public land ownership and recreation (and engage in it) in lots of states that I'll never hunt in.

Having grown up out east I would describe it as "out of sight, out of mind."

 

[Trial153]

I get what you're saying, but...what you sharin' Massachusetts?

I would say they share their share tax revenue with WY.....

Which States Rely the Most on Federal Aid?

Montana, Wyoming, Louisiana, Mississippi, and Arizona rely the most on federal aid. Meanwhile, Hawaii, Virginia, Kansas, Utah, and Minnesota rely the least.

taxfoundation.org

 

[Deleted member 28227]

So for those who feel this will lead to less support for public land hunting or public land in general, what do you mean exactly? I'm not saying you're wrong just help me understand, I've never lived in a non-rocky mountain state. I already support public land ownership and recreation (and engage in it) in lots of states that I'll never hunt in.

I think the point is if your not using it, why should you care if someone else gets to use it. Wy residents priced me out of hunting NF in WY, why should I care if the national forest gets sold and then a lot of residents lose their hunting spots.

Myopic perspective but there it is...