And the Hits just keep on coming....WY now.

[Edwin]

Seriously?

We are loosing half of the allotted NR tags for the LE units....

Do you think guys like me were building preference points just to draw a general tag?

124,000 folks just like you. But hey you can always go on your $2000 general elk hunt as long as you don't hunt wilderness.

 

[rwc101]

Neither were laser rangefinders and bows with eighty percent let off. The durability of the NA model absolutely depends on its ability to adapt to changing circumstances.

I'm assuming you haven't read my other posts in the thread. I am from the east coast, I have written legislators about my concerns with NR access and the effects it might have on the state such as potential loss of advocates (provided the legislators want any more of those.) Other Wyomingites on the thread want a whole lot more tags than I do.

Thanks for your service to our wildlife.

 

[BuzzH]

124,000 folks just like you. But hey you can always go on your $2000 general elk hunt as long as you don't hunt wilderness.

Or not...nobody is forced to apply.

Maybe if certain NR's weren't such crybabies they could find a Resident to sign off for them in wilderness areas.

Maybe do some research, lots of big general bulls killed outside wilderness every year here.

Most NR's that draw quality elk tags here shoot smaller bulls than they could find in general areas...fact.

 

[Djfan]

Just wait until the habitat stamp bill passes.

Will the conservation stamp go away then?

 

[rwc101]

Will the conservation stamp go away then?

No, increases in price for Access Yes and wildlife crossings.

 

[WapitiBob]

I thought this was a good presentation. Hard to argue against any of it.

part one, start 54:00

after the glitch part 2

 

[mottlet]

I'm assuming you haven't read my other posts in the thread. I am from the east coast, I have written legislators about my concerns with NR access and the effects it might have on the state such as potential loss of advocates (provided the legislators want any more of those.) Other Wyomingites on the thread want a whole lot more tags than I do.

Thanks for your service to our wildlife.

No, I did. There's enough snark floating through this one without me cutting across your bow, apologies if it seemed I was; was not the intent. Just a reflection on the future of the NA.

Shoot, don't thank me. I get paid. Thank you for doing the work (and speaking up for us NRs). I've got a middling pile of WY points that I've never used. There's definitely times I wish the West wasn't so far, but most days I'm glad it is. Maybe it ain't far enough...

 

[Deleted member 28227]

Anyway, just musing to myself. My initial comment was focused on the democracy of hunting as described in the NAMWC since that is what seems to be at play here. We all agree on the democracy of hunting as the NAMWC. Keeping tags affordable for everyone, not basing tags on land ownership (cough, landowner tags), wealth (cough, landowner tags), or other privileges. I think the current state of NR hunting has drawn the ability to offer those principles to their extreme. When you load the model with the stress of increasing pressure, diminishing habitat, and cost of you are inevitably going to spin the model out of control. I see the model succeeding well into the future if people buy-in to their stewardship at the local, county, regional, and state levels and with the increased buy-in from non-hunters as @wllm1313 mentioned. I think that leaves the model with a much more solid foundation. Abandoning the model or declaring it dead because you have to wait a few more years to travel half-way across the country to hunt is what scares me. As I have said elsewhere, one thing I really like about Wyoming is seeing regular joes bring their family to the state and develop a passion for the habitats and wildlife. I hope we can continue to offer those experiences well into the future.

Exactly. The current model works only if there is so much opportunity that competition for the resource, while heated, isn't too bad.

If development, as it has in parts of CO, really picks up and herds dive what do you do.

If in order to keep the herd going you have to cut tags by 40% what happens? Cutting tags on the NR is going to hurt your budget an order of magnitude more than cutting it on Residents.

So what's the plan in 2040? 80/20 split in favor of Non-residents so that they can fund the habitat projects need to keep animals on the ground.

The enemy isn't other hunters, it's development and all the various threats to wildlife/the herd. The current structure pits everyone against each other and therefore sucks.

Same issue with pref points, creates this weird generational animosity, where instead guys like me should be asking guys like BuzzH for advice.

Bad systems.

 

[Dougfirtree]

How many times does it need to be explained?

Currently NR's receive 7,250 full price elk tags by REGULATION. IF 90-10 passes, NR's will still receive 7,250 full price tags. 7,250 is always equal to 7,250 full priced tags.

Currently a vast majority of NR deer tags are region wide NR tags. 90-10 will not change the allocation of NR region wide tags. Same now as after 90-10.

NR's currently receive about 30-32% ABOVE their 20% allocation of pronghorn tags due to undersubscribed R tags rolling into the initial NR draw, and also a majority of leftovers go to NR's. That wont change under 90-10 either.

Yes, there will be a few less LQ deer tags, a few less sheep, moose, goat and bison. That's it...when talking about TOTAL NR TAGS.

I may sound like a broken record on the Type 4 thing. I get your point, and the math. I understand that non-residents aren't really losing in terms of numbers of elk tags. But, doesn't this seem problematic with regard to Type 4 elk tags. They are LE tags, no? So, this bill seems like it will take away 50% of the Type 4 tags from non-residents, while simultaneously making Type 4's less appealing to residents who now get more bang for their points in the Type 1 and 2 drawings. If residents aren't using up the type 4's, will the leftovers go into a pot accessible to non-residents? Or, will G & F have to issue more type 6 tags to meet management objectives? That could take a bite out of the 8 million estimate. Especially if the non-residents decide that 1000 dollars is a bit steep for a cow tag. If this is going to pass, this seems to me to be a good moment to separate the type 4's from the type 1's in terms of cost.

 

[TOGIE]

Bad systems.

let's just say imperfect systems. like anything.

to call it a bad system is really unfortunate in my mind considering what the model has accomplished.

times evolve, systems need to evolve as well. but it's not inherently a bad system.

 

[Dougfirtree]

"currently", The 16% is made up of LQ tags and gen tags. After the draw, the remaining LQ tags get converted to gen tags and reissued thru the random draw.

Right. I get that non-residents are keeping the same number of tags, but getting fewer LQ tags and more general tags. I suspect that this could work out the way they want it to in terms of bull tags (type 1 and 2). I just think it may not play out as nicely for LQ cow tags (type 4).

It also crosses my mind that residents who generally hunt a general tag may not be in love with their thousands of extra buddies in the general areas...

 

[WapitiBob]

yea I deleted my post after thinking I was off on a tangent and not addressing your point. Those addl 6% type 4/5 will go to the residents but I would guess it won't take long and they will draw those type 4 as 2nd choices.

 

[Carl 9.3x62]

Just wait until the habitat stamp bill passes.

Which one is that? I didn't see it when I skimmed through the bills.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

let's just say imperfect systems. like anything.

to call it a bad system is really unfortunate in my mind considering what the model has accomplished.

times evolve, systems need to evolve as well. but it's not inherently a bad system.

Great point, they're not bad. They were just created with specific variables in mind and those, over time, have changed.

 

[rwc101]

Seems like

Which one is that? I didn't see it when I skimmed through the bills.

My bad, Conservation Stamp. I get stuck calling licenses/tags names from other states I've lived in.

New Bill Poised To Increase Sportsmen Access - Wyoming Wildlife Federation

Wyoming hunters and anglers are frustrated. They are running low on access to quality hunting and fishing on private and landlocked public lands. Access to

wyomingwildlife.org

 

[ccc23454]

That bill was presented well! I would of liked to hear about the 7250 but suspect we will on Thursday.

 

[Hawk Tuah]

@IdahoNick,

The outfitters are already squawking, but realistically, it will be good for some outfitters and not so good for some as well.

In regard to elk, if I were a guide that hunted general areas, I'd support 90-10. More general tags will be issued under 90-10.

Deer, no real change, as a vast majority of deer tags are region wide where guides operate.

Pronghorn, I would probably support it as well, since again, more public land dominated tags going to residents, means more available less public land tags that Residents would draw on their 2nd or 3rd choices.

Sheep, moose, goat, bison...its a wash. Most outfitters guide more resident sheep, moose, goat, and bison hunters than non residents. The point system has assured that a vast majority of people hunting those are long in the tooth, don't have the knowledge, don't own livestock and book with outfitters. The outfitters charge both R and NR the same price...wash there.

Excellent points. Thank you.

 

[PAhunter]

I understand that the 7,250 NR elk tags is a WYFG regulation. How difficult is it to change a regulation? Relatively speaking, is it more difficult to change a WY statute or a WYFG regulation?

 

[88man]

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Colorado has way less hunters than a decade ago, and the harvest has nose dived.

What is interesting to me is the Rec days hasn't really changed, so people are hunting harder.

The data is spot on right? Hello lets introduce wolves, lots of them.

 

[Deleted member 18333]

I understand that the 7,250 NR elk tags is a WYFG regulation. How difficult is it to change a regulation? Relatively speaking, is it more difficult to change a WY statute or a WYFG regulation?

WYOGA tried to get the commission to increase the 7250 quota a couple years ago. They were not successful. This change will get them much closer to what they wanted.