American prairie. What's the issue?

[Gerald Martin]

I don't care if they jump fences or not. Has there been any research into what the free ranging bison herds impact will be on deer and elk in that country? mtmuley

Certainly not more impact than with the cattle that folks who are celebrating this decision are hoping to run on those leases.

If livestock producers in the area hope to get those grazing leases, I predict they will be sadly mistaken. I predict AP will begin running just enough cattle to maintain their BLM leases in hopes of getting a better outcome from a different administration. I also predict that they will be allowing less cattle from neighboring ranchers to be grazed on their owned property since they will be shifting their bison to graze on private land only.

The hell of it for the save the cowboy folks is there’s nothing that keeps AP from becoming a direct competitor by increasing their beef production and decreasing their cooperation with local ranchers.

I hope the UPOM crowd enjoys the effect of cutting of their nose. I don’t think AP is going to feel like it has a spited face.

 

[Straight Arrow]

This is relatively new.

That is a false statement. AP has been running bison for years. Turner Ranches have been running bison for decades. Each has had an open and public dialogue about wildlife management, research and species health on the respective properties.
Seems strange that you would use the word "new".

 

[mtmuley]

Certainly not more impact than with the cattle that folks who are celebrating this decision are hoping to run on those leases.

If livestock producers in the area hope to get those grazing leases, I predict they will be sadly mistaken. I predict AP will begin running just enough cattle to maintain their BLM leases in hopes of getting a better outcome from a different administration. I also predict that they will be allowing less cattle from neighboring ranchers to be grazed on their owned property since they will be shifting their bison to graze on private land only.

The hell of it for the save the cowboy folks is there’s nothing that keeps AP from becoming a direct competitor by increasing their beef production and decreasing their cooperation with local ranchers.

I hope the UPOM crowd enjoys the effect of cutting of their nose. I don’t think AP is going to feel like it has a spited face.

Thanks. But doesn't answer my question. Maybe in a decade or so we will see. Bison and cattle aren't the same. mtmuley

 

[mtmuley]

That is a false statement. AP has been running bison for years. Turner Ranches have been running bison for decades. Each has had an open and public dialogue about wildlife management, research and species health on the respective properties.
Seems strange that you would use the word "new".

Speaking of the Breaks country. Totally different scenario. Ain't no fences out there. mtmuley

 

[Straight Arrow]

The first wildlife research in Montana was conducted over two hundred years ago by the Corps of Discovery with a report of abundant deer and elk ... along with millions and millions of bison.

 

[Big Fin]

Bison and cattle aren't the same. mtmuley

Agree.

Yet under Montana law, MCA 81-2-120, as established by our legislature, they said otherwise .

 

[mtmuley]

Agree.

Yet under Montana law, MCA 81-2-120, as established by our legislature, they said otherwise .

And that is unfortunate and not to change anytime soon. Makes the management a nightmare. mtmuley

 

[bigsky2]

Certainly not more impact than with the cattle that folks who are celebrating this decision are hoping to run on those leases.

If livestock producers in the area hope to get those grazing leases, I predict they will be sadly mistaken. I predict AP will begin running just enough cattle to maintain their BLM leases in hopes of getting a better outcome from a different administration. I also predict that they will be allowing less cattle from neighboring ranchers to be grazed on their owned property since they will be shifting their bison to graze on private land only.

The hell of it for the save the cowboy folks is there’s nothing that keeps AP from becoming a direct competitor by increasing their beef production and decreasing their cooperation with local ranchers.

I hope the UPOM crowd enjoys the effect of cutting of their nose. I don’t think AP is going to feel like it has a spited face.

I agree. This decision will likely result in less cattle grazing on AP’s deeded and BLM leases than there is currently.

 

[Straight Arrow]

Speaking of the Breaks country.

AP consists of some "Breaks country". I think it would be helpful for you to take the time to learn more about AP. Go to their website. Go to their interpretive center.
Also look up UPOM's perspective.
IMO, you are being argumentatively grasping at straws. If you are opposed to AP for some reason or are opposed to Bison on the Montana landscape, acknowledge that and provide clear rationale, please.

 

[mtmuley]

AP consists of some "Breaks country". I think it would be helpful for you to take the time to learn more about AP. Go to their website. Go to their interpretive center.
Also look up UPOM's perspective.
IMO, you are being argumentatively grasping at straws. If you are opposed to AP for some reason or are opposed to Bison on the Montana landscape, acknowledge that and provide clear rationale, please.

I am not opposed to APR. I just have to wonder how their vision of huge herds of free ranging bison will affect other species. Deer and elk specifically. The hunting in the Breaks is dismal at best right now. Introducing bison that can free range seems like a bad idea. mtmuley

 

[BuzzH]

I am not opposed to APR. I just have to wonder how their vision of huge herds of free ranging bison will affect other species. Deer and elk specifically. The hunting in the Breaks is dismal at best right now. Introducing bison that can free range seems like a bad idea. mtmuley

Bison will effect deer and elk way less than cattle.

The problem with the shit deer and elk hunting in the breaks has zero to do with bison. Its 100% a management problem.

 

[mtmuley]

Bison will effect deer and elk way less than cattle.

The problem with the shit deer and elk hunting in the breaks has zero to do with bison. Its 100% a management problem.

Never saw a cow one in my hunting of the Breaks. Saw bison on the way in. mtmuley

 

[BuzzH]

Never saw a cow one in my hunting of the Breaks. Saw bison on the way in. mtmuley

You reckon the bison ate all the elk?

 

[mtmuley]

You reckon the bison ate all the elk?

No. Not all of them. I did see a few. mtmuley

 

[Straight Arrow]

how their vision of huge herds of free ranging bison will affect other species. Deer and elk specifically.

Wolves and griz moving into the Breaks, along with hoards of long range archers and riflemen ... yet the worry is about the peaceful tatonka?!

 

[BuzzH]

No. Not all of them. I did see a few. mtmuley

My observation on bison when I worked for Ted Turner is that they are wayyy easier on the land than cattle. They spend very little time in riparian areas much preferring to be up on the ridges grazing. That is a great deal for plant diversity in riparian areas that deer, in particular benefit from.

When bison graze the uplands they move a lot more than cattle as well. Don't forget the tall grass prairies found in the breaks evolved with high intensity short duration grazing. Also, pronghorn and deer benefit from new forb production following bison grazing. Its also a good deal for generalist animals like elk, keeping grasses and plant diversity in earlier succession.

Grazing is fine and can be beneficial but its way more difficult to achieve desired results with cattle grazing than just allowing bison to do their thing.

 

[mtmuley]

Wolves and griz moving into the Breaks, along with hoards of long range archers and riflemen ... yet the worry is about the peaceful tatonka?!

No. Not at all. Yet. I just wonder the effects later. mtmuley

 

[INMT]

I am not opposed to APR. I just have to wonder how their vision of huge herds of free ranging bison will affect other species. Deer and elk specifically. The hunting in the Breaks is dismal at best right now. Introducing bison that can free range seems like a bad idea. mtmuley

Have you read the accounts of Lewis and Clark? No cattle. A Chit ton of bison. And an abundance of deer and elk. I highly doubt the APR’s bison will decimate deer and elk in the breaks.

 

[mtmuley]

Wolves and griz moving into the Breaks, along with hoards of long range archers and riflemen ... yet the worry is about the peaceful tatonka?!

You have proof of wolves in the Breaks? Bears maybe. Let's see it. If they are there, there is a guy here that knows.

 

[mtmuley]

Have you read the accounts of Lewis and Clark? No cattle. A Chit ton of bison. And an abundance of deer and elk. I highly doubt the APR’s bison will decimate deer and elk in the breaks.

Not what I am saying. These are different times. I want to know if the bison will have adverse effects on other game animals. mtmuley