American prairie. What's the issue?

[Eric Albus]

All of the people who have sold land to APR were free to sell it, at any price they wanted, to any of their neighbors, family, friends, or some young rancher starting out if they were really worried about this “save the cowboy” stuff. They did not.

Just like I’d most likely do if in that position.

 

[Straight Arrow]

Still can't figure out what the conspiracy is, after 200 posts

You cannot apply logic where logic does not exist.

 

[Eric Albus]

When land is sold it goes generally to the highest bidder.
When/IF(big if!) I sell I want the right to sell to whom ever I so deem(most like high bid wins!)
That said, do I think it’s a good thing? No. I do not.
What happens in 100 yrs (likely takes much longer) when 4-6 corporate entities own all the production land in the U.S. and they put “embargo ON” the American govt and ppl?
Billionaires and their corporations are buying production land in the mid west. This should concern people more buying a hunting ranch in Montana.

 

[SAJ-99]

When land is sold it goes generally to the highest bidder.
When/IF(big if!) I sell I want the right to sell to whom ever I so deem(most like high bid wins!)
That said, do I think it’s a good thing? No. I do not.
What happens in 100 yrs (likely takes much longer) when 4-6 corporate entities own all the production land in the U.S. and they put “embargo ON” the American govt and ppl?
Billionaires and their corporations are buying production land in the mid west. This should concern people more buying a hunting ranch in Montana.

It sounds like you don’t like the current system in American. So socialism? Taxing billionaires? Not sure how you fix the problem you pointed out. Montana legislators have tried, but let’s be honest. They aren’t anti- billionaires, they are anti-certain types of billionaires.

 

[Desk Pop]

When land is sold it goes generally to the highest bidder.
When/IF(big if!) I sell I want the right to sell to whom ever I so deem(most like high bid wins!)
That said, do I think it’s a good thing? No. I do not.
What happens in 100 yrs (likely takes much longer) when 4-6 corporate entities own all the production land in the U.S. and they put “embargo ON” the American govt and ppl?
Billionaires and their corporations are buying production land in the mid west. This should concern people more buying a hunting ranch in Montana.

You can sell to whoever you want. I think it's great if you want to sell to the lowest bidder based on principle. I doubt you will.

What is your solution? Pass a law where ranchers can't sell their land unless you approve the sale? Outlaw billionaires from buying land?

Free market. This is freedom. We don't need more government intervention. We need less.

 

[jejack26]

How many Americans own second homes in Mexico, Canada, etc

There are 14 million green card holders in the US, and you have to live here for almost a decade to become a citizen, so those folks can’t own homes?

If you look at mineral extraction and owning mineral rights which isn’t exactly land ownership… we are all up in arms about buying foreign oil but, a huge portion of our oil is developed by foreign companies… large multinationals that hire tons of Americans, but foreign… a couple Chinese companies are huge in WY

I get the sentiment… I just think is complicated.

So you couldn't actually own land in mexico until fairly recently. Look at cadastral map of areas around great falls, mt . To ask permission you need to contact a foreign national. ( I don't anything about onx)

At what point does this concern the US. COVID has revealed issues with our supply chain. If all our crops are owned controlled by outside interests does that concern you. What about oil and precious minerals?

 

[Eric Albus]

You can sell to whoever you want. I think it's great if you want to sell to the lowest bidder based on principle. I doubt you will.

What is your solution? Pass a law where ranchers can't sell their land unless you approve the sale? Outlaw billionaires from buying land?

Free market. This is freedom. We don't need more government intervention. We need less.

You completely missed the point. There is no solution.
I’ve never implied or stated that “I” need approval, or have the right to approve of what anyone else does.

 

[Eric Albus]

It sounds like you don’t like the current system in American. So socialism? Taxing billionaires? Not sure how you fix the problem you pointed out. Montana legislators have tried, but let’s be honest. They aren’t anti- billionaires, they are anti-certain types of billionaires.

Where did I imply I dislike the current system enough to incite a mutiny?

 

[VikingsGuy]

When land is sold it goes generally to the highest bidder.
When/IF(big if!) I sell I want the right to sell to whom ever I so deem(most like high bid wins!)
That said, do I think it’s a good thing? No. I do not.
What happens in 100 yrs (likely takes much longer) when 4-6 corporate entities own all the production land in the U.S. and they put “embargo ON” the American govt and ppl?
Billionaires and their corporations are buying production land in the mid west. This should concern people more buying a hunting ranch in Montana.

A. Most corporations do not want to own production lands, and unless tax changes drive that business model, that won’t change - asset light continues to be the preferred way.

B. Many states already have laws that restrict this and others would add if the trend were to pick up.

C. Most farming land consolidation is done by the most successful area farmers, not distant corporations.

 

[VikingsGuy]

So you couldn't actually own land in mexico until fairly recently. Look at cadastral map of areas around great falls, mt . To ask permission you need to contact a foreign national. ( I don't anything about onx)

At what point does this concern the US. COVID has revealed issues with our supply chain. If all our crops are owned controlled by outside interests does that concern you. What about oil and precious minerals?

I remember when the Japanese were going to “own” America and that amounted nothing. Russian oligarchs driving up property prices in Miami was a drama for awhile. Now it will be the Chinese.

“Foreign owners” is a big red herring issue. Especially “food security”. It’s not like they are taking food off the plates of Americans and shipping them the Beijing. And if they did, it would take a New York minute to regulate that out of existence.

We need to quit being fearful of the “other” and start fixing our own sh*t. If we work hard and innovate we will continue to lead. If we hide in a corner and cling to the past we will lose. Time to modernize, not lionize the past.

 

[MTGomer]

I always figured my name is on the deeds of the pieces of private property where my opinions about their use is relevant.

 

[VikingsGuy]

For context - not including American govt owned land and assets, the US has about $300 trillion in assets. All foreign investors own about $15 trillion of that (over half in treasury bills). US citizens own about $12 trillion in foreign assets. The largest foreign asset owners are U.K. and Germany with China in third. Interestingly, foreigners own more debt and US primarily owns foreign assets - consistent with US investing to make money and foreign investors in US parking money in a safe place.

Foreign ownership is not the driver of the US economy and is not a threat to our way of life.

 

[MTGomer]

You can sell to whoever you want. I think it's great if you want to sell to the lowest bidder based on principle. I doubt you will.

Funny side story… I lost out on a piece of property I tried to buy once, even though I had the highest offer and the successful buyers had been dragging their feet until I put my offer in.
My name is Riley, which is predominantly a female name, especially in other parts of the country. After it fell through, we found out that the older couple that was selling it thought that my wife and I were a lesbian couple and they didn’t want to do that to the neighbors…

 

[Deleted member 28227]

So you couldn't actually own land in mexico until fairly recently. Look at cadastral map of areas around great falls, mt . To ask permission you need to contact a foreign national. ( I don't anything about onx)

At what point does this concern the US. COVID has revealed issues with our supply chain. If all our crops are owned controlled by outside interests does that concern you. What about oil and precious minerals?

The largest foreign land owners are Canadian timber companies and the Dutch pension fund. Huge swaths of Maine, and I think Ohio/Texas respectively. Bad or good , but the Canadian ownership of US lands is like 30x the Chinese ownership.

Some states have laws saying foreign nationals can't own farm land.

I think by and large most of these are investments. The company produces in the US, hires US employees, pays US taxes, and the goods are sold on the US market.

As @VikingsGuy said, at any time they are subject to nationalization.

BP, Shell, Eni, and huge foreign oil producers in the US... Sinopec is a huge investor, though typically not the actual operator. Though at the same time US E&P companies operate all over the world.

It's interesting, but not really concerning to me, I think if anything cross national investments probably stabilize relationships.

 

[SAJ-99]

Where did I imply I dislike the current system enough to incite a mutiny?

Where did I say you were implying a mutiny? I suspect (guessing) You don’t like that ranchers kids took a different path and would rather have the cash than the ranch land. Also, now if someone new wanted to get into ranching, they probably couldn’t afford to buy the ranch land because of the need for a large loan and the risks involved in ranching/agriculture. Not sure how concerned I should be. Explain your vision of how this hurts us in the future and convince me I should be concerned.

 

[Big Fin]

I was originally curious if this thread was really about land prices and the ability for younger farmers/ranchers to get into the business, as some state are their concerns of APR's activity, or do some not want to see the market system work because of who the buyer is; APR? After enough posts, my curiosity is satisfied and the evidence is pretty strong the motivations of many.

A small sample of sales below are huge acreages at crazy per-acre values, yet these sales have had no comments about pricing young farmers/ranchers out of the market. Maybe I'm too simple to understand, but where's the angst on these huge sales; are these not far more damaging to the fate of "The Cowboy?"

- Tom Siebel listed the N Bar for $45 million and it was bought by the Wilks Brothers.

- The Koch Brothers sell the Matador to Rupert Murdoch, when reported price was $200+ million.

- Stan Kronke bought the Broken O when it was listed for $133 million. In addition to the many other ranches he and his Wal-Mart wife have bought in Montana.

- Jim and Bea Taylor sell the Horse Ranch to the Wilks Brothers for $15 million.

- Tom Brokaw sold his West Boulder Ranch to the Dominos Pizza tycoon and it was listed for $18 million.

- Glenn Patch sold the Crazy Mountain Ranch to Phillip Morris who just sold it for many "x" more than the many millions they paid to Patch et al.

- Jim Kennedy Cox sold his White Sulphur ranch to the Wilks brothers.

- Ted Turner has purchased over 2 million acres, and according to him, across eight states, with much of that in Montana. And across those holdings he runs 45,000 bison; worthy of note given bison are such a big concern.

- The Climbing Arrow (CA) Ranch, just sold for $136 million.

- Look at all the other ranches here that have sold for $10+ million, just in the last year or two - https://westernranchbrokers.com/sold-montana-ranches/.

- For those wanting to "Save some Cowboys," here is a list of ranches for sale that folks can start protesting as part of their campaign of concern - https://fayranches.com/ranches-for-sale/rocky-mountain-land-properties-for-sale/montana-properties/


I could list a lot more of them with millionaires/billionaires selling to other millionaires/billionaires.

I'd prefer to see land stay with producers, for a lot of reasons. I wish the numbers for agriculture could pencil out and make sense for younger folks wanting a start. But it doesn't. I share the same concern as @Eric Albus with regards to what this reality means for rural Montana where I spend most of my summers.

I don't expect the folks who worked their asses off for generations to sell at lower prices for altruistic reasons or due to peer pressure when the New Age billionaires buy/sell these ranches with great regularity. Good for those folks who cash out. They somehow hung on through really tough times and they deserve every penny they get, regardless of who the buyer is.

Since the trend of billionaire buyers isn't changing anytime soon and given we have no control over that trend, for the sake of these folks finally cashing out, I hope the billionaires and APR get in some hellacious bidding wars for their properties.

These concerns of pricing out young farmers will carry more weight and sincerity when we start seeing signs to "Save the Cowboy" by boycotting Wal-Mart, the LA Rams/Denver Nuggets/Colorado Avalanche, the Outdoor Channel/Sportsman Channel, Cox Communications, Mars, Phillip Morris, Dominos Pizza, Fox Networks, Wall Street Journal, Comcast, Goldman Sachs, and the many other enterprises that fund the billionaires' buying sprees in Montana.

The way this topic gets framed is peculiar. It's about dislike of APR as some sort of bogeyman, which is fine. The gymnastics some employ to frame it as something other than dislike for APR does make for good humor.

Carry on ........

 

[Deleted member 28227]

This is hilarious hahaha

It's illegal, if someone is discriminated against because of there sexual orientation or perceived sexual orientation that is in violation of federal law and they should contact HUD.

 

[DFS]

It's illegal, if someone is discriminated against because of there sexual orientation or perceived sexual orientation that is in violation of federal law and they should contact HUD.

It’s ok for some stuff to be funny.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

It’s ok for some stuff to be funny.

That’s not funny, if it was me their ass would be in court.

 

[VikingsGuy]

It’s ok for some stuff to be funny.

Then how about you focus your comedic genius mocking provincial Montanans for awhile and give women and LGTBQ a rest?