Aircraft/Drone regulation passes in Wyoming

[JM77]

Some good news in the Cowboy state for hunters and wildlife. Today, the G&F Commission voted to change Section 12 regulation on aircraft use to the following:

>Section 12. Use of Aircraft to Spot or Locate Wildlife. No person shall use or operate any aircraft with the intent to spot, locate and aid in the taking of any game animal from August 1 through January 31 of the following calendar year. Nothing in this Section shall apply to the operation of an aircraft in a usual manner where there is no attempt or intent to locate any game animal, such as aircraft used for the sole purpose of passenger transport.<

A lot of time and work was put into this effort with local sportsman backed by Backcountry Hunters and Anglers and all groups involved in the Wyoming Sportsman's Alliance. BuzzH and his group deserve a huge pat on the back for working towards more ethical hunting in Wyoming and to reduce harassment on our wildlife resource.

BHA has worked hard in many states to ban drone use for scouting, but the bold effort in Wyoming to ban all aircraft has paid off in big dividends! Many thanks to all involved, including Wildlife Law Enforcement Supervisor Mike Choma of the Wyo G&F.

Hopefully other states will follow suit...

 

[VAspeedgoat]

Good work done by all, thanks.

 

[MN Public Hunter]

I'm confused, where does it say "drone" in there? A drone is not an aircraft in the manner they are speaking about. Are you sure you pasted in the correct section?

 

[shootbrownelk]

It says "ANY aircraft" so that covers just about everything, other than birds.

 

[JM77]

I'm confused, where does it say "drone" in there? A drone is not an aircraft in the manner they are speaking about. Are you sure you pasted in the correct section?

MN, last year we started this process by changing the definition of "aircraft" in regulation to read:


(b) “Aircraft” means any machine or device (including but not limited to airplane, helicopter, glider, dirigible or unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV)) capable of atmospheric flight.

 

[MN Public Hunter]

MN, last year we started this process by changing the definition of "aircraft" in regulation to read:


(b) “Aircraft” means any machine or device (including but not limited to airplane, helicopter, glider, dirigible or unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV)) capable of atmospheric flight.

Ah, now that helps....I guess when I hear aircraft I think of a real plane and not toys

 

[Bambistew]

How do you enforce intent?

A similar rule passed in AK recently. To say the "locals" came unglued, is an understatment.

Enforcement is nearly impossible. Who's to say you're not circling to look at something other than an animal? Or making repeated passes over a likely landing spot, etc. While it keeps the honest people honest, it won't make it in court unless someone is in the field with a camera and it's convincingly clear what they are doing. With today's cameras the passenger can film and there is no need for repeated passes, just review the footage.

While I 100% agree with the ban, it will be rough to prosecute.

 

[mixedbag]

how far can a drone fly from its controller anyway?I really have no idea but wouldn't think a drone would be all that useful.I agree with bambistew on enforcement.I understand Ak law of no hunting same day of flying.But,if you located animals days before, you still have to get to them and hunt.Not to mention,how many actually could afford this type of scouting.Maybe its more prevalent then I think,but seems like a non issue to me.If I drive by a field and see some big buck,I still have to figure out how to kill it.All I know is where it lives.I don't really see a difference unless they are hunting from the aircraft.Can someone explain the unfair advantage

 

[jryoung]

how far can a drone fly from its controller anyway?I really have no idea but wouldn't think a drone would be all that useful.I agree with bambistew on enforcement.I understand Ak law of no hunting same day of flying.But,if you located animals days before, you still have to get to them and hunt.Not to mention,how many actually could afford this type of scouting.Maybe its more prevalent then I think,but seems like a non issue to me.If I drive by a field and see some big buck,I still have to figure out how to kill it.All I know is where it lives.I don't really see a difference unless they are hunting from the aircraft.Can someone explain the unfair advantage

50% increase in sales year over year for the past two years and sales projected of 2.8M units in 2016. While it is only the most expensive with substantial range, that range will reach consumer level in a couple of years at most. As for the unfair advantage, killing animals is a lot easier if you know where they are. If you can toss a drone in the air and scout the drainage to your east and west in a matter of 10 minutes and find elk in the east drainage you just cleared a significant hurdle....not you can go take a 1,000yd shot because you have turrets on your scope.

 

[mtmiller]

You can get drone that will travel more than 3 miles from the controller for under $1k. Driving by a field and flying a camera over the mountain don't compare in my opinion.

Great job WYSA and BHA (Buzz).

 

[hank4elk]

I have goose loads............

 

[BuzzH]

how far can a drone fly from its controller anyway?I really have no idea but wouldn't think a drone would be all that useful.I agree with bambistew on enforcement.I understand Ak law of no hunting same day of flying.But,if you located animals days before, you still have to get to them and hunt.Not to mention,how many actually could afford this type of scouting.Maybe its more prevalent then I think,but seems like a non issue to me.If I drive by a field and see some big buck,I still have to figure out how to kill it.All I know is where it lives.I don't really see a difference unless they are hunting from the aircraft.Can someone explain the unfair advantage

A couple things regarding this.

First off, JM77 isn't taking enough credit for his role in getting this thing passed. He did a ton of work on this, but it really was a team effort.

There are several reasons why we decided to take this on, and there are 2 people that post on this board that had hunts disrupted, if not outright ruined, by aircraft. One was a sheep hunt, another a pronghorn hunt. In both cases the hunters burned many points, and spent a ton of time and money to come to Wyoming to hunt. The least I could do for them, is to try to curtail the flying that ruined their hunts. I also witnessed numerous planes flying on my moose hunt last year in the Wyoming range. I don't think any of the planes were looking for moose, but were 100% looking for mule deer and probably elk as well. I also read all the public comments and there many comments reporting the abuse of aircraft. So, yes, it is a big problem and there were many reports of a few outfitters flying to scout in the Wyoming Range and elsewhere.

Another reason was to get in front of the drone technology...as has been stated by miller and jryoung. These things are becoming an absolute nuisance, and that's putting it mildly. Its easier to take action before the technology takes hold.

It makes me shake my head when I see comments like the one above, "how is this an unfair advantage?". Its pretty easy to spot elk, sheep, goats, pronghorn, mule deer, moose from the air...and you know immediately if you're looking at a trophy class animal.

I guess if a hunters #1 goal is to simply KILL an animal...then they will find a way for the means to justify the end and likely couldn't ever "see" the problem with scouting from the air. But, IMO, how I pursue, locate, and hunt an animal is much more important than just killing one...and there is a difference. If ethics mean nothing to the hunter, than I suggest they take up another sport.

In short, flying was the line in the sand we drew regarding technology and hunting...and from the comments received a majority of hunters in Wyoming favored the regulation.

There is also the fact that Statute already existed that flat outlaws the use of aircraft for hunting big and trophy game...period. This regulation simply mirrors Statute.

Its really a no-brainer, a way to level the playing field for all hunters, and more importantly to level the playing field for the wildlife.

We understand, and have talked at length about the "intent" issue, as well as prosecuting. But, like ANY law on the books, enforcing and getting prosecutions is never a slam dunk. This regulation will slow down the use of aircraft/drones.

 

[mixedbag]

how far can a drone fly from its controller anyway?I really have no idea but wouldn't think a drone would be all that useful.I agree with bambistew on enforcement.I understand Ak law of no hunting same day of flying.But,if you located animals days before, you still have to get to them and hunt.Not to mention,how many actually could afford this type of scouting.Maybe its more prevalent then I think,but seems like a non issue to me.If I drive by a field and see some big buck,I still have to figure out how to kill it.All I know is where it lives.I don't really see a difference unless they are hunting from the aircraft.Can someone explain the unfair advantage

 

[mixedbag]

Sorry, double post.Ididnt realize they could fly miles away for that cost.I've never seen anyone using one while I've been out hunting so it just seemed odd.I get that its easy to locate animals thru the air but I don't see how that makes hunting them any easier by just knowing they are there.Every transporter in Ak places people based on what they see thru the air throughout the year.I do get if money is no object and you want to find a trophy to go after a plane would sure make that easier.
So what if you wanted to fly in and land on some landlocked BLM land like Finn did years back,is that now illegal??I'm guessing it is because they could say you spotted animals flying in there and that's why you landed.That law would then be a benefit to landowners who use the public ground as their own,and stop the rest of us from accessing it;ifwe have the means.I do agree, I wouldn't want drones flying all over the place and being a nuisance.I just don't see how that makes a kill any easier.For the record, I don't own a drone and never will nor to I fly around in airplanes for fun.What if your a pilot and enjoy flyingon your days off but hunt during hunting season??If you kill something would everyone immediately point a finger at you.I do have friends that fly and like to hunt

 

[LaHunter]

Mixedbag, bro you HAVE to be able to see how a drone with a camera gives an unfair advantage. Think about it. You could spend a week hunting in the mountains within 1-2 miles of a herd of elk and never see them if you are in the wrong drain. You could spend days within a mile of a huge mulie and never know he is there, but with a drone you could locate him from the air. With a drone, you are able to locate the animals and then go hunt them. Also, a drone can help eliminate areas with no game or no animals that you want to hunt. This could save days of hiking. Locating the game is at least 1/2 the battle. If drones offer no benefit, why does the military use them extensively??? One important purpose is to find the enemy!!!
I know a kid that has one that has a range of 4 miles and has an hd camera that takes excellent video and photos. I think he paid about $1,000-$1500 for it.
Think about it

 

[BuzzH]

Sorry, double post.Ididnt realize they could fly miles away for that cost.I've never seen anyone using one while I've been out hunting so it just seemed odd.I get that its easy to locate animals thru the air but I don't see how that makes hunting them any easier by just knowing they are there.Every transporter in Ak places people based on what they see thru the air throughout the year.I do get if money is no object and you want to find a trophy to go after a plane would sure make that easier.
So what if you wanted to fly in and land on some landlocked BLM land like Finn did years back,is that now illegal??I'm guessing it is because they could say you spotted animals flying in there and that's why you landed.That law would then be a benefit to landowners who use the public ground as their own,and stop the rest of us from accessing it;ifwe have the means.I do agree, I wouldn't want drones flying all over the place and being a nuisance.I just don't see how that makes a kill any easier.For the record, I don't own a drone and never will nor to I fly around in airplanes for fun.What if your a pilot and enjoy flyingon your days off but hunt during hunting season??If you kill something would everyone immediately point a finger at you.I do have friends that fly and like to hunt

mixedbag,

I'm not going to go 15 rounds with you on this, but you really need to think about this.

For starters, you don't have any problem with a guy waiting 19 years to hunt sheep in Wyoming with a longbow and then have his hunt ruined by airplanes? Because that's exactly what happened. Not only did the planes spook the sheep into the cliffs where they weren't stalkable, but within a day there was an outfitter with a client camped right on top of my buddy.

That's BS, and a complete disregard for not only fair chase and ethics, but a disregard for another hunter as well as the wildlife.

As to your concern with flying into landlocked BLM, that is not illegal under this law. We had discussions with the GF and their attorneys on this very thing. There is nothing that prohibits the use of an airplane for transporting passengers. But, if you fly around with the intent to spot game prior to landing to hunt, then you're in violation.

If you don't think that using an aircraft is an advantage, apparently you either haven't spent much time in the air and aren't much of a hunter. Its a HUGE advantage, I would argue an unfair advantage. Once I find the animal I want, about 95% of the time, its game over for that critter. THAT is the fun part of the hunt for me, finding the animal, being able to recognize the sign, learning about where and why that animal is in the place I found it. You seem to think that trophy game animals are smarter than the average animal...and elk is an elk, a sheep a sheep, etc. they aren't smarter because they're bigger. What allows them to reach trophy size is mainly a function of where they live. Once you find them, they aren't any more difficult to kill than any other animal for the most part. That's just a fact.

I say when hunters choose to justify things like spotting game from aircraft, they're robbing themselves of the best part of the hunt. Its a lazy way out, a cheapening of the sport to check another critter off a list. Perhaps you're fine with that, and if you are...well, I just don't have any respect for that.

This flying has disrupted a ton of hunts for people, is putting undue pressure on a limited wildlife resources, and most importantly is just flat unethical and against fair chase principles.

Its too bad you don't appear to support regulations that portray hunters in a positive light, that the hunt itself is what matters and not the need to justify an obviously unethical and unfair way to locate, pursue and hunt big and trophy game...very sad.

Its called hunting, and not killing, for a reason...that concept seems to escape some.

 

[shootbrownelk]

I know a rancher who routinely flies a plane to spot elk, then phones or walkie-talkies his outfitter as to the herds location. I've seen this many times. The outfitter and his clients parked in his truck with horses in a trailer waiting for word from the pilot. They have a pretty high success ratio. I think it sucks that G&F doesn't do anything, but he also flies for G&F when they do a head count on the critters. I think Top Gun knows who I'm talking about.

 

[mtmuley]

Regulate em now before they get out of hand like ATVs/UTVs. mtmuley

 

[BuzzH]

You would have really like the testimony given by a Natrona County Commissioner/landowner. Actually, it may be on youtube, as they usually post the commission meetings.

In front of a room full of red shirts, he admitted to flying to locate elk for the guys he charges to hunt his ranch, pushing elk from surrounding ranches onto his, and a host of other similar "arguments".

He just didn't understand why hunters in Wyoming wanted this regulation to pass???

Yeah, I have no idea either...

 

[Topgun 30-06]

I know a rancher who routinely flies a plane to spot elk, then phones or walkie-talkies his outfitter as to the herds location. I've seen this many times. The outfitter and his clients parked in his truck with horses in a trailer waiting for word from the pilot. They have a pretty high success ratio. I think it sucks that G&F doesn't do anything, but he also flies for G&F when they do a head count on the critters. I think Top Gun knows who I'm talking about.

Gee, I have no clue as to who you're talking about, LOL! The sucker damn near landed on me one morning he was so low! I was right in the middle of a stalk on antelope on a big chunk of BLM land and he hazed them right away from me. It was definitely done on purpose and with Sy leasing his ranch since back in the late 80s they are quite a team! The G&F won't do anything just for the reason you mentioned and the fact that it's probably the biggest ranch in the county and they have a lot of pull. What really ticks me off is when you enter their ranch on the main road there is a big sign stating that for the next so many miles you're on private property and not to go off the road. However, there are numerous places where the road goes through either state or BLM land and after being harassed while hunting on some of the BLM back in 2003 I, along with 4 Wisconsin hunters that it also happened to, filed written complaints with the G&F. The GW visited me a few days later and told me he had warned SY that his guides better lay off the legal public land hunters or he would be risking loss of his outfitters license. It must have sunk in because whenever we hunt antelope down there now we have had no problem at all with any of his employees.