Accuracy vs. Precision

[Hircine]

Bipod or other front rest and a rear bag. If you build a solid position it should be at least as solid/consistent as a lead sled but actually allows the rifle to recoil like it’s supposed to and not so hard on scopes and stocks.

I'm confident in today's technologies to be able to compensate for these forces through modern R&D to the point that what used to be a concern, isn't anymore so long as you're buying quality products.
This is just to determine whether or not a person is the problem or the gun is. A couple shots from a lead sled will do no harm.

 

[Carl]

I'm confident in today's technologies to be able to compensate for these forces through modern R&D to the point that what used to be a concern, isn't anymore so long as you're buying quality products.
This is just to determine whether or not a person is the problem or the gun is. A couple shots from a lead sled will do no harm.

Wind Gypsy knows what he’s talking about, and I can’t think of a single person who advocates using a lead sled I’d say the same for.

 

[VikingsGuy]

Do you use a lead sled?

Nope - for the reasons already offered by others. Creates an unnatural rifle reaction to recoil. I shoot over sandbags or bipods.

 

[Hircine]

That's fine. The nice thing about America is not everyone has to do the same thing or follow anything but ones own intuition. I've seen many knowledgeable and experienced people use lead sleds. I've seen the abuse modern products can handle. A couple shots to determine whether a person is the problem or the gun is not going to do any measurable damage to a rifle.

 

[The Hedgehog]

I knew OntarioHunter was going to chime in with some good info. Thank you.

 

[Deleted member 20812]

‘Murica, where the laws of physics don’t apply.

 

[OntarioHunter]

I knew OntarioHunter was going to chime in with some good info. Thank you.

You're welcome. Always glad to assist the intellectually and experientially handicapped.

 

[Hircine]

Hunt talk where salty old timers go to reinforce their prehistoric ideologies and can't hand a grain of sand when it comes to differing opinions.

 

[OntarioHunter]

Hunt talk where salty old timers go to reinforce their prehistoric ideologies and can't hand a grain of sand when it comes to differing opinions.

Yeah, I prefer to keep my hands out of the dirt. Never know when I'll feel the need to suck my thumb.

 

[Don Fischer]

Get a good quality bipod. Mine drags on the bench during recoil and has marked my stock where the base of bipod attaches at sling swivel. I made this setup and it allows the rifle to move more freely during recoil. I have a fancy v-shaped rear bag for butt that I picked up on sale somewhere.
View attachment 271711View attachment 271712

Huh! I have a tripod but usually end up using a 6 x 6 with a sand bag on top!

 

[406dn]

I got nothing on the lead sled.

But, you can have precision without accuracy, but not the other way around.

 

[VikingsGuy]

I got nothing on the lead sled.

But, you can have precision without accuracy, but not the other way around.

Depends on your n

 

[Wind Gypsy]

I'm confident in today's technologies to be able to compensate for these forces through modern R&D to the point that what used to be a concern, isn't anymore so long as you're buying quality products.
This is just to determine whether or not a person is the problem or the gun is. A couple shots from a lead sled will do no harm.

I wont argue at all that the majority of hunters don't know how to build a solid position even on a concrete bench and can probably get more steady on a lead sled AND are less likely to have flinch induced errors doing so. I'd expect most rifles and scopes make it through a few lead sled shots fine.

My main hangup is that it is not hard for someone willing to learn to get just as steady and shoot as good or better without (pending an inability to shoot without flinching, in which case they should find something they can actually shoot) and that translates to being a better rifleman in general.

Again, I'm not by any means saying your rifle/scope is guaranteed to be ruined by a lead sled but I think you've got some misplaced trust in the reliability of fairly complex optical instruments.

 

[The Hedgehog]

How important is using a damn bipod? I hate them for hunting, and prefer to just get a solid rest without a bipod. When testing/zeroing recently, i've been just using a small rear bag and solid rest over a packpack or duffle bag. Seems to be fine. @Carl @Wind Gypsy am I missing out?

 

[VikingsGuy]

How important is using a damn bipod? I hate them for hunting, and prefer to just get a solid rest without a bipod. When testing/zeroing recently, i've been just using a small rear bag and solid rest over a packpack or duffle bag. Seems to be fine. @Carl @Wind Gypsy am I missing out?

I use sandbags or bipods at the range for zeroing a scope or developing a hand-load or just plinking, but while hunting (and practicing for hunting) I shoot exclusively off my pack. Prone, sitting, kneeling, the pack always seems to fit the bill.

 

[Hircine]

I wont argue at all that the majority of hunters don't know how to build a solid position even on a concrete bench and can probably get more steady on a lead sled AND are less likely to have flinch induced errors doing so. I'd expect most rifles and scopes make it through a few lead sled shots fine.

My main hangup is that it is not hard for someone willing to learn to get just as steady and shoot as good or better without (pending an inability to shoot without flinching, in which case they should find something they can actually shoot) and that translates to being a better rifleman in general.

Again, I'm not by any means saying your rifle/scope is guaranteed to be ruined by a lead sled but I think you've got some misplaced trust in the reliability of fairly complex optical instruments.

I'm not talking about learning to shoot using a sled. I'm talking about verifying accuracy and precision problems are with the rifle or the shooter. That's all.

 

[TOGIE]

the lead sled comments are odd to me, it seems if you wanted to perfectly zero a rifle you'd have a robot pulling the trigger on an immovable rifle... i don't get why having a lead sled is bad for zeroing, you want the scope to be the only variable for getting zeroed...

seems practicing is where you don't want the lead sled. unless i'm misunderstanding?

don't give a chit anyway. i shoot like 4 rounds a year outside of hunting and that's honestly more time than i want to spend dealing with my rifle anyway. hitting animals under 300 yards is not rocket science.

 

[ImBillT]

I was watching something recently and can't remember the app but you plug in the caliber you are shooting and take a picture of the target with your phone and it calculates out the grouping, deviation, etc. all for you. Was a pretty slick deal.

I kinda wanna know what that is.

 

[cahunter805]

the lead sled comments are odd to me, it seems if you wanted to perfectly zero a rifle you'd have a robot pulling the trigger on an immovable rifle... i don't get why having a lead sled is bad for zeroing, you want the scope to be the only variable for getting zeroed...

seems practicing is where you don't want the lead sled. unless i'm misunderstanding?

don't give a chit anyway. i shoot like 4 rounds a year outside of hunting and that's honestly more time than i want to spend dealing with my rifle anyway. hitting animals under 300 yards is not rocket science.

A lead sled is bad as it doesn’t allow a solid cheek weld/ proper alignment with the scope, doesn’t allow the rifle to recoil and can crack the stock.

 

[cahunter805]

How important is using a damn bipod? I hate them for hunting, and prefer to just get a solid rest without a bipod. When testing/zeroing recently, i've been just using a small rear bag and solid rest over a packpack or duffle bag. Seems to be fine. @Carl @Wind Gypsy am I missing out?

As long as your front sling stud doesn’t get caught/contact anything during recoil shooting off a pack can be very solid.

I prefer a bipod as it allows me to get setup on uneven ground much easier than over a pack.