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A Western-Style Shoot Out

timber_hunter

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Joined
Apr 28, 2019
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65
Location
SW MT
It was the last couple hours of rifle season here in Montana when my friend and I glassed a large herd of elk close to the road. We couldn't believe our luck as everything was perfect to sneak in and take a good shot. We were about a mile from the herd so we started run-hiking towards the elk. Suddenly, we noticed an orange army descending from the road towards the elk, cutting us off. There was no way we could outfitness them so we waited for the shots to ring out, hoping the elk would come toward us. Well, the elk didn't come our way, so we hiked to a high vantage point and saw people flinging lead at the moving herd from 500-1000 yards away. There were multiple wounded elk. I realized I was caught in a situation that I had heard about but hoped I would never see. At this point the hunt turned into a damage control situation, and we pursued a wounded cow hoping to put her out of her misery. We couldn't find her, so we proceeded in the direction of the elk, hoping to find another wounded animal to kill. I bumped a wounded cow and shot her. Another guy close by emptied his magazine on the cow, shooting directly toward us in the process, and claimed her as his. I didn't want to argue so I let him have it. That cow was the first big game animal I've shot. I've been busting my ass since I started hunting two years ago, and I had hoped my "first" elk would play out a little differently than it did.

Since Sunday, I've had a lot of time to think about what happened. I should mention that I welcome any criticism of my thought process, as I'm still quite angry about what happened and haven't had enough time to rationally sort through my thoughts.

First, I think the phrase, "hunting is conservation" is an empty and meaningless phrase that isn't examined closely enough by the average hunter. There's this commonly-held idea that hunters are an important part of the landscape because we reduce herd numbers, which ostensibly reduces competition for herd resources, thereby bolstering the health of the herd. I think this thought process encourages unethical behavior like shooting at a moving herd 1000 yards away. Because "what does it matter if a few are injured, there are so many damn elk anyway that I'm probably doing them a favor."

Ironically, the same people that herd shoot are the same people that turn around and complain about the wolves decimating elk and deer populations. They're probably the same people that go shed hunting in late winter and bump stressed game off their winter range. Well, maybe the hunting would be a lot better if everyone insisted on taking ethical shots they were 100% confident in. And waiting until late spring to shed hunt.

Which brings me to my second thought, and one that is not likely to be popular: I hate R3. Even as a new hunter. I think R3 is a thinly-veiled ploy by the hunting industry to turn a buck.

What happens when the hunting industry promotes R3, CWD continues to impact herds, wolves are re-introduced in Colorado, wolf numbers continue to expand throughout North America, and elk and deer numbers continue to decline? I truly believe there will come a point in my lifetime (I've got 50 years of living left if I'm lucky) where hunting will be outlawed. Or will at least be so heavily restricted that drawing an elk tag in my state of MT will be as difficult as drawing a sheep tag. CWD, increased interest in hunting, wolf depredation, exploding human population in the GYE...all of these factors could coalesce into drastically reduced game numbers. And then the public will decide what's most important: hunter opportunity, or wild game on the landscape. The easiest factor to control is hunting, and there goes our privilege to hunt. The decision to re-introduce wolves in Colorado sets a dangerous precedent of the public making wildlife management decisions, not biologists.

My third thought is the idea of imposing self-restrictions. Do we really need to apply for tags throughout the Western states, and go kill a bunch of elk every year? That seems like too much taking for one hunter. Do you really need to fill every single one of your tags this year? Companies like GoHunt certainly promote this behavior.

Hunting ethics are dynamic and will need to be continually revised if we want to maintain our hunting privileges.

Anyway, that's all I've got for now.
 
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Ah, bummer to hear about your experience. I've been part of something like that and it is tough to see and be associated with. I think the "hunting is conservation" ethos makes some feel like a conservationist just because they bought a tag. Anything after that doesn't really matter. Unfortunately its these people who anti hunters prey on to attempt to make policy changes, even though they are the exception and certainly not the rule. I'm a little split on R3. I think it is an honest endeavor by some groups, but yea it'll definitely help the industry put up bigger numbers. I also secretly (or not) don't want more people to contend with, but that is a bit selfish. I think your idea of imposing self restrictions is a good one. I'm always conflicted between my love of hunting and wanting different experiences and long seasons, which requires multiple tags with how much meat I really need in the freezer. I guess I'm mostly optimistic about the future. There are so many good non-profits, game agencies and others (BigFin!) that do great work and have been changing the narrative around hunting. I also think that if things really get that dire, that hunters in general are responsible enough to limit themselves. Hopefully we don't have to find out.
 
My thoughts in response:
1. Those guys herd shooting are not Hunters. They don’t deserve the title.
2. First I’ve read of R3. No comment.
3. How many people really fill tags in multiple states every year? I doubt the number is significant
4. Too bad we cant shoot the road hunters, herd shooters and wannabe snipers that intentionally shoot long on game.
 
First, I think the phrase, "hunting is conservation" is an empty and meaningless phrase that isn't examined closely enough by the average hunter. There's this commonly-held idea that hunters are an important part of the landscape because we reduce herd numbers, which ostensibly reduces competition for herd resources, thereby bolstering the health of the herd. I think this thought process encourages unethical behavior like shooting at a moving herd 1000 yards away. Because "what does it matter if a few are injured, there are so many damn elk anyway that I'm probably doing them a favor."

Ironically, the same people that herd shoot are the same people that turn around and complain about the wolves decimating elk and deer populations. They're probably the same people that go shed hunting in late winter and bump stressed game off their winter range. Well, maybe the hunting would be a lot better if everyone insisted on taking ethical shots they were 100% confident in. And waiting until late spring to shed hunt.

Which brings me to my second thought, and one that is not likely to be popular: I hate R3. Even as a new hunter. I think R3 is a thinly-veiled ploy by the hunting industry to turn a buck.

What happens when the hunting industry promotes R3, CWD continues to impact herds, wolves are re-introduced in Colorado, wolf numbers continue to expand throughout North America, and elk and deer numbers continue to decline? I truly believe there will come a point in my lifetime (I've got 50 years of living left if I'm lucky) where hunting will be outlawed. Or will at least be so heavily restricted that drawing an elk tag in my state of MT will be as difficult as drawing a sheep tag. CWD, increased interest in hunting, wolf depredation, exploding human population in the GYE...all of these factors could coalesce into drastically reduced game numbers. And then the public will decide what's most important: hunter opportunity, or wild game on the landscape. The easiest factor to control is hunting, and there goes our privilege to hunt. The decision to re-introduce wolves in Colorado sets a dangerous precedent of the public making wildlife management decisions, not biologists.

My third thought is the idea of imposing self-restrictions. Do we really need to apply for tags throughout the Western states, and go kill a bunch of elk every year? That seems like too much taking for one hunter. Do you really need to fill every single one of your tags this year? Companies like GoHunt certainly promote this behavior.

Hunting ethics are dynamic and will need to be continually revised if we want to maintain our hunting privileges.

Anyway, that's all I've got for now.
Reference the phrase "hunting is conservation", you are correct in that this is not unequivocally true. Not all hunters are conservationists any more than all conservationists are hunters. Some are merely consumptive users. That said, the money they contribute DOES promote conservation. Does the money some provide offset their behavior? Not always.

This terminology doesn't promote poor behavior, greed does. Yes, very liberal seasons CAN potentially devalue our reverence for the animal depending on how we view things. In the end though, I'd still wager individual motivations are the root issue here.

As to your point about R3, I'll disagree. I understand your frustration, and honestly think you need some time to process. I doubt hunting will ever be outlawed in mine or your lifetimes, but I can see a day where public access to resources is limited enough it becomes very difficult to participate. I do agree with your frustration of citizen initiative wildlife management.

To your last point, not sure how to answer that. It's America and we have choices. I don't choose to hunt elk in multiple states due to financial reasons. However, I don't have any qualms with filling the two tags I usually have each year.

These situations are ugly, pure and simple. I've witnessed them on numerous occasions, and had a really bad experience with a cow elk I was finishing off. It happens and I was pretty sour on the experience too. It sucks your first elk ended up like it did. That's the greed I was referencing. Unfortunately, entering the fray with altruistic motives of putting down cripples still ropes you into being a participant, and subject to the actions of others. I really wish it wasn't that way.
 
Silly question, but if when he shot, it was a line from him to elk to you, wasn't it the same in reverse when you shot?

Regardless that just doesn't sound fun.
 
Silly question, but if when he shot, it was a line from him to elk to you, wasn't it the same in reverse when you shot?

Regardless that just doesn't sound fun.
Technically he was shooting towards my friend who is in the line of fire behind the elk. My friend wasn’t carrying a rifle. I was off to the side and had located the other party and my friend and was shooting in a safe direction.
 
Technically he was shooting towards my friend who is in the line of fire behind the elk. My friend wasn’t carrying a rifle. I was off to the side and had located the other party and my friend and was shooting in a safe direction.
Gotcha and I apologize if I ruffles any feathers
 
As someone once told me, “hunting season makes people weird”. I think most around here avoid high traffic areas and high volume times of the season for a reason. Been involved in a few of these over the last couple decades and it never gets easier.
 
My experience as a Montana resident makes me ask if this type of behavior is increased when people can purchase a tag good for 5 weeks which increases the odds of large out of state and less than ethical hunters. Just my thoughts.
 
I say this often, probably because I keep seeing it more and more, but some of the worst people I have ever crossed paths with were hunters. More often than not, my only bad experiences with fellow humans throughout the year are during hunting season.

These asshats are not the majority of hunters but they make up a good chunk of it. The obsession to fill a tag, not to be confused with filling all your tags through hard work, brings the worst out of some. Guys will go to great lengths to fill a tag, at all cost, and break tons of rules and be inconsiderate dickweeds to their fellow hunters. I remember shooting another group of rifle hunter's bull moose, that's right I had shot "their" bull moose on private that I had access to during archery. These guys had gotten their panties in a bunch and threatened my buddy and I because we had killed "their" moose. I'm glad I killed "their" moose, it was delicious, but that was the last time I would ever hunt that area, just not worth it.

While the idiot crowd is still pretty large, there's also a good chunk of the community who are some of the greatest people I've ever met. These people can't make up for the idiots, but they sure make the experience more enjoyable.
 
There is a paradigm in hunting, you find in few other activities. Everyone has their idea and eventually that leads to a difference in tactics or ethics or both.

It is an observation to me that an elk tag will turn many people that ordinarily may be quite mellow and collected, into some sort of maniac. The closer you are to masses of people, the more this activity seems to become more apparent.

The internet is much the same way, only more people become the maniac with less chance of being exposed.

As far as hunting, it was mentioned in the original post about the "privilege" of hunting. When you require a license to drive or hunt, it is a privilege, but I would like to think hunting is more of a right. As long as it is regulated and people act like they do, this kind of activity will always create a negative image to observers as well as hunters.

I have seen the residue of these types of mass shootings, never observed it personally, but I don't like to see or hear of it.
 
My experience as a Montana resident makes me ask if this type of behavior is increased when people can purchase a tag good for 5 weeks which increases the odds of large out of state and less than ethical hunters. Just my thoughts.
Good question, you should contact Montana Fish and Wildlife and ask which hunters receive the most ethical violations Non-Resident who spent a small fortune to get there, or the Resident hunters.
 
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