MTLabrador
Well-known member
I’m not anti archery at all, it’s just one of many weird personal ethical issues I argue with myself about. I’ve just come to prefer the efficiency of using a rifle to convert an elk into meat.
A story, an outcome, and maybe a change of direction
- Thread starter Irrelevant
- Start date
OntarioHunter
Well-known member
- Joined
- Sep 11, 2020
- Messages
- 5,997
In South Africa many PHs prefer Jack Russell or crosses. I generally don't care for those noisy ankle biters but the ones I've encountered there have been very pleasant and well behaved. Because they are small they're agile enough to dodge horns when they have wounded plains game at bay. Some species are particularly dangerous (e.g. bushbuck and gemsbuck). This English bull terrier is another example of small blood tracker. Butch was a little wound up but a fun dog to be around. (the impala is a management cull)
noharleyyet
Well-known member
Ultra Mag...now turn your head and cough ; )
Potsie
Well-known member
44hunter45
Well-known member
+1
Joel is a Washington guy, too. I don't know about the backwards thumb release thing, but his mental and physiological training methods are very interesting.
I started looking at his stuff this year. I too am on the fence about future archery hunting. I made a stupid vow not to hang up the bow I got from my dad until I killed something with it. I've hung a lot of toys on it, but it's still a 40 year old Hoyt Spectre.
My archery career has been a comedy of errors. Like shooting between the antlers of a 320+ bull at 12 yards. Or having arrows fall off the rest coming to draw. Or walking into elk on the trail and having no shot because I didn't have my head in the game.
I've posted that I helped a friend look for a downed elk this year. We were unsuccessful, too. He is a cold blooded killer and it happened to him. That puts me right where you are in terms of questioning my qualifications to bow hunt.
I find in general, I kill less now than I did. I hate not having the meat, but more and more I am happy to be out. I drew blood with my rifle this year on an early cow tag, but it was not a lethal hit. At the time I did not feel that I was morally obligated to eat the tag, but I will have no regrets doing so. Ironically, I took up the bow because rifle (and then handgun) hunting had just become mechanical to me.
We can justify that the wound/loss rates for archery and muzzleloading are factors the managers plan to, and that the grizzlies and wolves will clean up after us. But for me that doesn't ease the pain of shooting something and not recovering it.
I shot a lot of small game with trad gear when I was a kid. I'm feeling the call to go back to it. Turner and Clay Hayes have been helpful in getting me shooting my recurve again. I think I will be focusing on hares and grouse with my trad bow until I feel 100% deadly again. I intend to join the local 3D club as well. They have a walking course a couple of miles from my house.
Irrelevant
Well-known member
That was mine... which I readily admit was a stupid shot.
I wasn't the only one with a tag, nor the only one to shoot a bull, nor the only one to not recover a bull. Would you call 17 yds points blank?
Yes
Pucky Freak
Well-known member
Neff, sorry to hear about your wound-loss bull. That’s rough, man.
When I started archery hunting I used a recurve. I practiced all the time. Got a few squirrels under my belt, felt I was ready to take on deer (16 y.o.). Missed my first six deer, all <15 yards. Killed one at 0 yards, then missed the next 2, then the next two in a row were wound loss, all <15 yards. I was devastated. I knew I could not continue to bow hunt deer with my current set-up. I hung up the stick bow, 2016.
I later learned about a paradox/spine issues that were causing poor arrow flight and penetration. I hunt compound now. I want to return to trad, and someday I will, when I’m ready.
Kudos to you for taking an indefinite break.
I’m same age as you, and I don’t ever see myself taking a break from hunting entirely, but that’s a whole other matter.
I have a stack of clean misses on trophy animals at very close ranges with many different weapons, and my bare walls are proof of it. But in that regard I know it’s a very fixable problem, which I’ve made big strides on in overcoming buck fever through muscle memory, repeatable process, etc. @JLS speaks truth…
When I started archery hunting I used a recurve. I practiced all the time. Got a few squirrels under my belt, felt I was ready to take on deer (16 y.o.). Missed my first six deer, all <15 yards. Killed one at 0 yards, then missed the next 2, then the next two in a row were wound loss, all <15 yards. I was devastated. I knew I could not continue to bow hunt deer with my current set-up. I hung up the stick bow, 2016.
I later learned about a paradox/spine issues that were causing poor arrow flight and penetration. I hunt compound now. I want to return to trad, and someday I will, when I’m ready.
Kudos to you for taking an indefinite break.
I’m same age as you, and I don’t ever see myself taking a break from hunting entirely, but that’s a whole other matter.
I have a stack of clean misses on trophy animals at very close ranges with many different weapons, and my bare walls are proof of it. But in that regard I know it’s a very fixable problem, which I’ve made big strides on in overcoming buck fever through muscle memory, repeatable process, etc. @JLS speaks truth…
Nothing walks away. mtmuley
Nick87
Well-known member
@neffa3 I feel your pain, you seem like a hell of a sportsman so I hope you stick with it. If not for buck fever I'd have a wall full of whitetails not to be believed. I cam find them setup and get them right in my lap. Come time to kill em i struggle, thankfully no wounded I get it so bad I clean miss lol or watch amd never draw back. Anytime there over 140" I freeze up. Good luck in whatever you decide.
Irrelevant
Well-known member
Another nail in the coffin of hunting for me. Took my daughter out for opening weekend of deer season here in WA. Day 1, 14 hours truck to truck, just under 14 miles. 0 deer seen.
Day 2. Totally new area, 6 hours 7 miles, 0 deer. I called it at 1pm. There are better things we could do with our day than not see deer.
woods89
Well-known member
- Joined
- Oct 27, 2021
- Messages
- 821
Well, @neffa3 , I'm feeling a little like you today. I had a decent whitetail buck come in on a string this morning. I got too fired up, rushed the shot, and hit him too far back.
I'm hopeful, as I shot him with a big mechanical, didn't trail at all, and backed out. My dad has an amazing little dachshund that's found quite a few deer, so we are going back in this afternoon with her.
I'm not going to quit bowhunting over it, but it's not a great feeling............
I'm hopeful, as I shot him with a big mechanical, didn't trail at all, and backed out. My dad has an amazing little dachshund that's found quite a few deer, so we are going back in this afternoon with her.
I'm not going to quit bowhunting over it, but it's not a great feeling............
OntarioHunter
Well-known member
- Joined
- Sep 11, 2020
- Messages
- 5,997
I read about way too many mishaps with bow hunting. I decided a long time ago that wasn't for me.
I'm also a bird dog junkie. Shooting moving targets and watching dogs have fun just can't be topped. Quite the show yesterday. My Lab Ellie had a rooster on point. It was a setup. Wind was stiff and he flew into it. Easy shot. Down he went, bounced once and took off running. Ellie overran him, he doubled back and disappeared into the clump of snowberries where she'd found him. Ellie ran to the snowberries and stopped. "Git em out of there!" She stood stark still head arched ears cooked, staring into the brush. "Hurry up or he'll get away!" Then she's up on her hind legs and dives in. A bit of thrashing around and out she comes with the rooster. She was listening for him to move. Needed a precise location before committing. Amazing.
I'm also a bird dog junkie. Shooting moving targets and watching dogs have fun just can't be topped. Quite the show yesterday. My Lab Ellie had a rooster on point. It was a setup. Wind was stiff and he flew into it. Easy shot. Down he went, bounced once and took off running. Ellie overran him, he doubled back and disappeared into the clump of snowberries where she'd found him. Ellie ran to the snowberries and stopped. "Git em out of there!" She stood stark still head arched ears cooked, staring into the brush. "Hurry up or he'll get away!" Then she's up on her hind legs and dives in. A bit of thrashing around and out she comes with the rooster. She was listening for him to move. Needed a precise location before committing. Amazing.
I missed this thread. Was 9 days into the shit storm of newborn life.
I keep thinking about that bow un shot and untuned in my crawl space…. and by that I mean I still don’t know what to think about it.
I want you to come out to colorado with some deer tags man.
I keep thinking about that bow un shot and untuned in my crawl space…. and by that I mean I still don’t know what to think about it.
I want you to come out to colorado with some deer tags man.
Last edited:
woods89
Well-known member
- Joined
- Oct 27, 2021
- Messages
- 821
Well, no luck. We blood trailed 6-700 yds, at which point the dog lost interest. Blood trail was down to pin drops.
Worth noting that it would probably have taken me a full day of trailing to advance as much as 2 hours with a dog. It's crazy what they can do.
Bowhunting is awesome at times, and brutal at others. I'm really wishing I had taken an extra second or two and did the job properly..........
Dougfirtree
Well-known member
I was traveling when this thread happened and I missed it. Sorry you had this painful experience, Neffa. That's a terrible feeling. All I will say is that it's to your credit that you're thinking about the stuff you're thinking about. And, do what you want to do. If you're not feeling it, don't do it. If you start feeling it again, do it. I think the hunting world could use more people as thoughtful as you and I feel really good about the ethics of hunting, in general. That said, if you don't want to go out and shoot animals and you don't have to, and you do it anyways... That's nothing to be proud of. I know you have plenty of ways to enjoy the outdoors. I think your heart will tell you what's right and that will be right, whether it changes, or stays the same.
Joe Hulburt
Well-known member
Been busy and missed this thread until now. Neffa, I would suggest that hanging up your bow at this point might be a big mistake. This may have already been mentioned as I didn't read all 5 pages but beside the immediate outcome of a successful hunt is the way that hunting can make you a better person in all other aspects of life. I've struggled with the exact same problem and had the exact same thought but after taking a year off from archery elk I got pissed at myself and realized it's more about discipline than buck fever, at least for me. In life as in hunting when I failed to have enough discipline the results are usually short of the goal. I am determined to never push an issue and hope that I'll get "lucky" in the process of pushing my limits. It really comes down to having a solid fundamental plan and sticking to it. Buck fever can be beaten if your happy to just be an observer who isn't even considering a shot until it's right. I still get really excited when things are happening too fast and it close up but the difference is I am perfectly happy to pass any shot that I'm not able to go thru my mental checklist on. Range yardage, perfectly broadside, within range that I am confident with, no possible obstructions, pick a spot and follow thru. If those things all happen it's really unlikely I will blow it.
When I started archery hunting in 1986 every bit of knowledge I could find said to do those things and not to shoot beyond 40 yards. Over the years I've watched the "rules" change and people justify taking marginal shots and blame regulations that don't allow lighted nocks etc for wounded and lost animals. If you dare question the new way you are a purist or elitist or some BS. The day the editor of Bowhunter magazine wrote an article advocating for frontal shots on elk I cancelled my subscription. Sure it's doable, but most novice archery hunters have no business taking that shot. The fact is common sense hasn't changed. If all the conditions are right an arrow is an extremely effective way to fill your freezer. Just my thoughts. Bummer it went south for you this year!
When I started archery hunting in 1986 every bit of knowledge I could find said to do those things and not to shoot beyond 40 yards. Over the years I've watched the "rules" change and people justify taking marginal shots and blame regulations that don't allow lighted nocks etc for wounded and lost animals. If you dare question the new way you are a purist or elitist or some BS. The day the editor of Bowhunter magazine wrote an article advocating for frontal shots on elk I cancelled my subscription. Sure it's doable, but most novice archery hunters have no business taking that shot. The fact is common sense hasn't changed. If all the conditions are right an arrow is an extremely effective way to fill your freezer. Just my thoughts. Bummer it went south for you this year!
L
longbow51
Guest
Ok, if you really want old school, before compounds, bowhunters shot all the time, year round. Shot in tournaments, shot gopher mounds, pine cones, rabbits, squirrels, carp. Knew their limits, and didn't lose many animals; at least the crew I ran around with didn't. If you can hit at rabbit at 30, a deer is pretty dead.
Then the ever-seductive technology persuaded us that practice wasn't necessary (like tennis players, golfers, QBs don't practice year round) and tech would provide the answer. Too much time on static targets at known ranges.
So, archery is a commitment, or, as the Japanese might say, a way of life. See Zen and the Art of Archery.
If you can't commit to that, you should give it up.
Long range hunting is much the same. Spend the whole year learning to read the wind, shooting gophers and PDs and coyotes.
Way too many casual bowhunters relying on tech and too many wounded animals.
I, once again, stand with @neffa3. Not everyone has the ability to run a 4.4 40, nor take an instinctive shot at 30 yards within 1 second.
Nor to take an 800 yard shot after a weekend course.
There, now I've pissed off everyone.
Then the ever-seductive technology persuaded us that practice wasn't necessary (like tennis players, golfers, QBs don't practice year round) and tech would provide the answer. Too much time on static targets at known ranges.
So, archery is a commitment, or, as the Japanese might say, a way of life. See Zen and the Art of Archery.
If you can't commit to that, you should give it up.
Long range hunting is much the same. Spend the whole year learning to read the wind, shooting gophers and PDs and coyotes.
Way too many casual bowhunters relying on tech and too many wounded animals.
I, once again, stand with @neffa3. Not everyone has the ability to run a 4.4 40, nor take an instinctive shot at 30 yards within 1 second.
Nor to take an 800 yard shot after a weekend course.
There, now I've pissed off everyone.
My tenacity for hunting has definitely waxed and waned over the years. Having a kid and an ever more demanding job has taken a toll on my time and interest in time-consuming hunts the last couple years.
But there have been several times, including just two nights ago, that I’ve watched my 22 month old son inhale pronghorn or elk backstrap as fast as he could shovel it in. That’s damn cool and makes me glad I’ve kept the game meat coming.
But there have been several times, including just two nights ago, that I’ve watched my 22 month old son inhale pronghorn or elk backstrap as fast as he could shovel it in. That’s damn cool and makes me glad I’ve kept the game meat coming.
Archery hunting has its ups and downs for sure. I’ve had my fair share of misses. Honestly i think hanging it up would be a bad decision if you enjoy archery. Practice and real world experience are the two things that will make you better than anything g
