Wyoming Wilderness LAW

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bcat

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I dont remeber if this was discussed here or on HIS or both but after reading it again by you know who on the "OTHER" board, I thought maybe we could stir the pot here too. Heres the link. What do ya think of the law, try to think about it from every angle before answering. Lets try to keep it civil, and see where there are good and bad points to it, instead of "JEALOUSY" etc. bcat
http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubb/Forum5/HTML/000737.html
 

hntrjohn

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Thats the law, period, end of story. I feel if you don't like it, go to another state. No, I am not a WY resident.

John

[ 12 April 2001: Message edited by: hntrjohn ]
 

yooper

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I'm wondering exactly what percentage of public lands in Wyoming that Wilderness-designated lands occupy?

Taken at face value it does seem to be stacked in favor of outfitters; however I think that some folks confuse lands designated as 'wilderness' with all public lands in Wyoming. Not true! There is plenty of public land available for non-residents to hunt in Wy without a guide if they so desire.

...... and whether you love the law or hate it, it is Wyoming's right to set its own laws governing the manner in which one hunts there.
 

UP Hunter

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Here we go again on this lovely topic. Bcat you must be bored and want to get this going all over again.

Yep, its the law no question about it. Anybody can see, as Yoop says, the purpose is to protect the outfitter business.

As for this out-of-stater though its not going to keep me from accessing federal land that its ok the other 9 months of the year for walking on.

Has anyone here actually ever been ticketed for this ?
 

Tobey

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My opinion as a outfiter and Guide

I think it sucks that you can't hunt where you want to !!!

On the other hand why can't the outfiters have a few perks???? I don't know about WY But here in Maine Guided bear hunts alone Generates Over 8 million dollors of revenue each fall from out of state hunters.
Now if your an outfiter here you hafta pay for land use permits and bait sites.We get no insurance from the state that we are the only hunters there.So Moosie can come up here by a license and permit for under $100.put out a pile of bait 100yds from one of mine and shoot a bear that I have been feeding for a month and have about $200. invested into. And do it all legaly!!!
 
B

bcat

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UP Hunter-The reason I started this topic again is because I saw it started on 24 hour campfire again, and I didnt see ANYONE post in favor of the law. One reason is the army of folks that posted against it, are mainly just jealous. They have blamed it on ALL outfitters for getting the law thru. I didnt make the law, but I do support it. It is no different than Alaskas law. They own the game and decide who gets to hunt what. Federal land or NO federal land. THere isnt that much wilderness in Wyoming as Yoop pointed out, and plenty of public land to hunt on. It does give the outfitters a little break, because they can advertize WILDERNESS HUNTS, if they are permitted to hunt in the wilderness, and ya dont have to put up with orange behind every tree like ya do in Colorado, and some other states. I know guys that have made two or three trips to Idaho to hunt the wilderness areas and came home with ZILCH!!!!!! Alot of good it did them to hunt the wilderness. They didnt know where to go anyway, and came home empty handed. It creates alot more income from a state that depends on outside income from hunters. A good portion of out of staters come here with everything they need except a few tanks of gas maybe, and NO income is generated from these kind of folks. The ones that pay the outfitter a few extra bucks, have a better hunt, worry free, and the money gets spent in the state by the outfitter. Groceries, feed for the horses for the whole year. vet bills, insurance and the list goes on and on. Everybody thinks the outfitters are really rolling in the dough. For those that think so, all I have to say is, I have a outfitting business for sale. CLients and all. :D :D :D Its not a money making proposition I can assure ya that. If it werent for the Wilderness law MANY outfitters would simply fold up. They would have nothing special to offer ANYONE, and there is a need for outfitters. Not everyone is phisiclly capable of hunting on their own, and believe it or not, some are not mentally capable of finding game. Some just like the thought of not having to cook, scout for game, wash dishes, pack out game etc etc. There is room for everybody in Wyomoing that draws tags, just not room in the little wilderness areas we have for everybody. It would totally ruin the hunting if they changed the law. bcat
 

yooper

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Now another perspective on this:

I honestly believe this law probably keeps alot of the rif-raf out of the wilderness areas. Speaking solely from my experience at home, I know the local wilderness is often void of hunters due to the limited access requirements and means of travel. Lets face it: People are lazy and wilderness hunting/camping takes work. For me, this was precisely the reason I hunted it for so many years..... I liked the fact that for the 12 years I hunted the Delirium wilderness, I saw only 1 other hunter in the woods.

Look at the pumpkin-patch in Colorado and this is a good example of what can happen.

So whether this law protects the outfitter or not, I do believe it provides for a more quality hunt in the long run.

And I would be mad as hell if Wyoming, Montana, Colorado, or any other state started dictating/trying to change the laws here in my home state. Likewise, I don't feel we have a right to ***** about the laws Wyoming has made.

Like Walter Kronkite used to say, "And thats the way it is....."
 

UP Hunter

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Per Bcat: It would totally ruin the hunting if they changed the law.

IMO this would not ruin hunting in WY one bit as most hunters would not access the wilderness areas Unless they were using outfitters. Beleive me, I have nothing against outfitters and understand all the costs and bs you have to put up with from the G&F.

Guess I'm just an independent, self-sufficient sob that doesn't like to be told what public property I cannot access. Yoop you are correct - "Thats the way it is, at least for now".
 

Muledeer4me

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UPHunter,right on on your post.That is the way most people around this part of the country see that law. Nothing against outfitters either but some of us have always been able to do it ourself and do not like to be told we can't. The only way to change bad law's are for enough people to see it and understand it then if enough get a belly full they do something about it.
I think we all have a right to voice our thought on another states law's ,as we never know when we might get the chance to hunt there.It doesnt effect me one way or the other because we dont hunt the wilderness anymore, but I hate to see others not get the chance to do it when those of us that have, know it can be done without the use of an outfitter IF someone wants to try and has the gear it do it.Not everyone is up to the task but for those of that have done stuff like that we know how fun it is.Hard yes but the pure satifaction of knowing you did it on your own is in my opinion the best.
I was always taught that you can do most anything if you try hard enough and( I cant )was not an option in our house,those two little words got us in a whole lot of sorrow if we tried using them.LOL
 
B

bcat

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UP Hunter-You were right about one thing in your post. Most out of staters are too lazy to hunt the wilderness anyway, like Md4me said they dont do it anymore either, and it is obvious that many wouldnt. On the other hand many would if they could, and as small as our wilderness areas are here, it would definately impact the hunting, and also the hunt, in that many people dont like to come hunting and see a hunter behind every tree. They like to hunt where it is vertually free from the orange brigade. THis is a plus for their enjoyment of the hunt. I will stand strong on my belief that it is more of an asset than a detriment to society on this matter. I respect your views tho UP Hunter, and at least you have made your case and truley understand the complexity of the issue. SOme people seem to see only things in one light for one reason, and it is a much more complicated issue than that, and one that simple minds can not understand, nor deal with in a knowledgeable manner. I think they should make anyone that hunts in the state on any federal lands hire a guide myself!!! :D :D That would really cut down on the number of hunters that influxed our state and help the game numbers immensly. Just in this county alone more than 30 moose have been illegally killed over the last 8 or 9 years by non-residents mistaking moose for elk supposedly. These were all Non-residents that were hunting on public lands WITHOUTthe use of an outfitter. WHat does that tell ya about the rest of the elk herd, that is wounded, gutshot and other things that most outfitters would not allow to happen while on their shift? Just something to think about. bcat
 

The Greek

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I havent weaghed in on this yet so here it is. First off the land belongs to the state,just like private land belongs to the owner. But the game dosent. Its wild game and it belongs to every one!!!
As far as the moose thing goes A few years back a engineer from Denver (this was in CO) shot a ranchers mule and taged it as a mule deer,the out of state law would not have helped!!!
I know how you all hate out of state hunters I feel the same way,but how would you feel if you were hunting out of state having to put up with that. Here in AZ and when i grew up out in CO most of us small town folks thought of city people in genral as out of staters.
;) :D
:cool:
 

Muledeer4me

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Greek,you hear all of those story's all the time no mater what state you live in.We all know there are (not so bright) people in every state and profession.Just because someone hires an outfitter does not mean that nothing bad will happen,we hear of outfitters getting busted for doing illegal stuff in every state, so my point is that not all hunters are bad and not all outfitters are bad.
I dont get how anyone could mistake a moose for a elk but it happens all over, even here in Idaho.We all suffer when stuff like that happens ,outfitters and hunters alike.
I just I have to say I am real lucky to be living in Idaho because even though we havent hunted in our vast wilderness areas in a while ,there is still plenty of spots to hunt where you don't run into other hunter's and the ones you do see are pretty into the hunt and dont mind hiking back away from the road's.
 

JB

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city slicker here!............some guy shoots a moose and thought it was a elk...musta been a city slicker.....some guy shoots a mule and thought it was a deer...musta been a city slicker......some guy finally graduates the third grade and marries his sister.....musta been a country boy..........................you know,that city slicker is pretty ignorant......but that country boy is down right stupid,him and his cross eyed kids :D :D :D ..........................................that being said,i think its probably a good law....i would think that its in the best intrest of the state.....us "out of staters" should leave it up to that state to make their own laws ....................just so you know how things work here in the big city..our bathrooms are located indoors with indoor plumbing and all and those of us that chew,we spit our tabacky outside,but not on the side walk........i know you country folk do things a little backwards........im just lookin out fer you guys ifin ya evar reckon yer gonna make ye a trip to the big city. ;) ...........JB
 
B

bcat

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Alex-I hate to break the news to ya but, The wildlife in Wyoming is the property of Wyoming. The land in the wilderness areas are owned by the federal government. As Mule 4 me said, there are good and bad amoung hunters and outfitters. Although not one of the moose killed illegally was killed by an outfitter or an outfitted hunter. That will speak for itself. JB ya must be talking about those down south hillbillies -boys that marry their sister after they graduate third grade. THings like that dont happen here in Wyoming. Ya would get run outta town!!! :D :D Dont have to worry about this country boy visiting your city JB!!! :D Dont have no desire to do such a thing. Whatever they want to do in your state is fine with me. The law is a good one hands down IN MY OPINIONand I hope it never changes. I try to mind my own business when it comes to other states laws, it dont affect me anyway, and it is their business not mine to medle in!! Debbie, just because you dont like it doesnt mean thats the way EVERYBODYsees the law. I dont like Idaho's hound hunting laws reguarding out of staters either, but I dont go off about it. Its the law, its a good one in my opinion, and I support it. I didnt make it or have anything to do with the law, but I think it helps our state. bcat

[ 14 April 2001: Message edited by: bcat ]

[ 16 April 2001: Message edited by: bcat ]
 

JB

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b-cat,lighten up........................i was just joking with you guys.......your one grumpy sob!.........JB
 
B

bcat

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Did I sound mad or UPSET JB? I think you are reading things into posts that simply are not there. I put alot of EXCALMATION points in my writing, but it is habit moe than meaning!! Wasnt GRUMPY AT ALL!!! You would know if I was grumpy!!! :D :D :D Seriously it is the down south hillbillies that marry thier third cousins not Wyoming folks!! bcat :D
 

The Greek

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Yea JB!!!! let me tell ya Wyoming is the place where men are MEN and sheep are nervous.
:D :D :D
That's an old joke we used to say in CO around the time CSU would play WY in Football every year! It just sounded right for the occasion.
;) :cool:
 
B

bcat

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Alex-The third cousions can relax but the sheep better keep their eyes open!!! :D :D :D Sleep with one eye open that is! Ya know the funny thing is Colorado has way more sheep than Wyoming does but we get the sheep jokes! :D :D bcat

[ 15 April 2001: Message edited by: bcat ]
 

wall hangers

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I would like to make a few general statements on this. First is that there is lots of areas to hunt elk or what ever your game outside of wilderness areas. All my elk,all my deer , my moose, three antelope and a bear were shot in non wilderness areas. All states have some laws or provisions that benefit their residences, and generate monies for the hunting communities of their state. I grew up in Idaho and after moving away tried to return each fall to hunt with my family , but Idaho has raised it`s license fee so high that I can`t. Isn`t this controlling out of state hunters and hunting to some degree also? Also what about some states that allow resident hunting only? I was watching a show on alligator hunting in Florida and was supprised to hear that when you shoot a gator, if you want to keep the meat you have to pay market price for it by the pound. Doesn`t most states laws and fees and restrictions favor their own state, residents and economy? While Wyoming may not be perfect in the management of its land or game it certainly is not alone in its shortcomings. As for your return on hunting time and monies , I think Wyoming`s policies have given us hunters, resident or non resident a great place to pursue the animals we love to hunt. WH
 
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