Wyoming Corner Crossing Defense Fund

[VikingsGuy]

Hinderance does not equal convenience.

Access is the most important "stick" in the "bundle of rights" that comes with property - so interfering with the lawful access of an adjacent property owner is one of the worst overreaches of a property owner.

 

[TOGIE]

By the way, I'm more or less just playing some devil's advocate here. As a western public land hunter, I of course would love to see this end in the best possible scenario for public land access. There is just a little part of me that makes me think deep about the private land owner and their rights because part of what makes America so g̶r̶e̶a̶t̶ effed is the fact that a person born w̶i̶t̶h̶ ̶n̶o̶t̶h̶i̶n̶g̶ rich can w̶o̶r̶k̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶i̶r̶ be an o̶f̶f̶ ass and t̶r̶y̶ ̶t̶o̶ often succeed in claiming s̶o̶m̶e̶ public d̶i̶r̶t̶ assets as their own. That's truly a p̶o̶w̶e̶r̶f̶u̶l̶ scary thing.

fixed that

 

[seeth07]

fixed that

no...totally different concepts so its not "fixed"...

 

[TOGIE]

no...totally different concepts so its not "fixed"...

i like mine better

 

[El Jason]

I’m thinking out loud here. DCA files charges for a 2020 violation. She alleges that was always the intent. I’m going to call bullshit, as that is straight up disingenuous.

So in 2020, these same four guys had to pivot around the T posts, per the arrogant manager whose boss has lots of money and land. I think this may actually strengthen the defendants’ claim of violation of federal law. It directly appears the intent of the landowner was to construct a barrier that made egress through the corner impossible.

I can certainly see where there could potentially be a conviction for 2020, but that conviction would open up some big questions as the case works it’s way through the appellate courts. I’m sure there are already subpoenas for all sorts of correspondence, which could very well provide basis for harassment charges and or civil suits against EMR.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

But isn't it true, even with a fence, you have to be so many feet off the property line. I would think the same would hold true for posts or any 'structure' that is not there naturally. And I dont want to give anyone ideas, but what happens if a landowner plants a tree right next to the pin? Would the state/hunter be able to cut it down?

Lot's of scenarios here. There's an awful lot of fences throughout the country that are interpreted as the property line or are common fences between the parties on both sides of the property line.

 

[VikingsGuy]

I’m thinking out loud here. DCA files charges for a 2020 violation. She alleges that was always the intent. I’m going to call bullshit, as that is straight up disingenuous.

So in 2020, these same four guys had to pivot around the T posts, per the arrogant manager whose boss has lots of money and land. I think this may actually strengthen the defendants’ claim of violation of federal law. It directly appears the intent of the landowner was to construct a barrier that made egress through the corner impossible.

I can certainly see where there could potentially be a conviction for 2020, but that conviction would open up some big questions as the case works it’s way through the appellate courts. I’m sure there are already subpoenas for all sorts of correspondence, which could very well provide basis for harassment charges and or civil suits against EMR.

What I find most disturbing in this whole thing is the lack of harassment (hunter or otherwise) criminal charges against the property manager/minions. Looking the other way on that type of simple assault is just asking for future escalation by one side or the other. Is there no rule of law in this county dedicated to keeping the peace? Pretty amazing/disappointing. Folks make fun of cities, but there is no way that behavior doesn’t get charged if the victim pushed the complaint in my city.

 

[El Jason]

What I find most disturbing in this whole thing is the lack of harassment (hunter or otherwise) criminal charges against the property manager/minions. Looking the other way on that type of simple assault is just asking for future escalation by one side or the other. Is there no rule of law in this county dedicated to keeping the peace? Pretty amazing/disappointing. Folks make fun of cities, but there is no way that behavior doesn’t get charged if the victim pushed the complaint in my city.

I think this completely hinges upon whether it’s legally considered a trespass. Pretty sure most western states would view some sort of action by the landowner to deter or stop the trespass to be acceptable.

 

[VikingsGuy]

I think this completely hinges upon whether it’s legally considered a trespass. Pretty sure most western states would view some sort of action by the landowner to deter or stop the trespass to be acceptable.

But as I understand it much of it occurred on BLM land. Any right you have to defend your property ends at your property line. Pretty clear legally in places that don’t worship ranchers above all other citizens.

 

[300stw]

What I find most disturbing in this whole thing is the lack of harassment (hunter or otherwise) criminal charges against the property manager/minions. Looking the other way on that type of simple assault is just asking for future escalation by one side or the other. Is there no rule of law in this county dedicated to keeping the peace? Pretty amazing/disappointing. Folks make fun of cities, but there is no way that behavior doesn’t get charged if the victim pushed the complaint in my city.

ive been in a couple situations in eastern montana last few years, were i have been told, point blank, by the sheriff and 2 different gamewardens, " would you please just quit coming here and hunting, were afraid someone is going to get hurt," they have refused to even think about charging a hunter harassment claim i wanted filed, this is county road row to blm that has a legit 40ft easemnt point not even a corner,,,, i keep thinking about the guy in augusta that got killed, even after 20 or 30 police calls interventions ect that the public warned police, the landowner was gonna snap, so realistically, we arent allowed to demand rightful acces, due to fear of being harmed I assume,,,,, sorry for the derail,,,,

 

[Elkmagnet]

What I find most disturbing in this whole thing is the lack of harassment (hunter or otherwise) criminal charges against the property manager/minions. Looking the other way on that type of simple assault is just asking for future escalation by one side or the other. Is there no rule of law in this county dedicated to keeping the peace? Pretty amazing/disappointing. Folks make fun of cities, but there is no way that behavior doesn’t get charged if the victim pushed the complaint in my city.

I remember when I was young I used to think that the job of the DA or prosecutor was to convict everyone who were guilty of a crime reguardless of agenda.
How naive of me.

 

[BrentD]

I remember when I was young I used to think that the job of the DA or prosecutor was to convict everyone who were guilty of a crime reguardless of agenda.
How naive of me.

When you were young, agendas were for meetings at work. Only.

 

[Dakotakid]

Having the defendants in one case represented by counsel as victims in the harassment case would be a train wreck.
They added charges from 2020 so the Statute of Limitations for fish and game charges is long.
The harassment can be charged after the trespass.
Just because it isn’t charged, doesn’t mean it won’t be.

 

[VikingsGuy]

I remember when I was young I used to think that the job of the DA or prosecutor was to convict everyone who were guilty of a crime reguardless of agenda.
How naive of me.

I'm just happy to pause and reflect on "when I was young"

 

[RobG]

Not sure about WY but in Wisconsin, the vertical plane at the property line applies to any portion of a tree. So you can literally cut off every tiny branch of a tree so long as the cut is made on your side of the property line. I've literally seen a tree trunk cut to the property line in a scenario where the one neighbor wanted the tree gone while the other wanted to keep it. So the guy that didn't want it said fine, watch this. Took his chain saw and cut through like 3/4 of it and stopped at the property line.

That's a well known example of the property rights extending above ground. The argument for that is you can't prevent another person from using his own land, including the airspace immediately above it. That's pretty much settled. (An example would be the tree branches preventing him from building a shed, but I don't think you need a real reason.)

On the other hand, a court case determined that you can annoy the F out of the guy by hovering a drone over his property and he can't legally shoot it down. This landowner deserves something like that for the way he is abusing the system to harass the defendants... I'd pitch in $20 to build a flock of drones....

To me the question is if the public's right to access public land outweighs whatever use crossing is preventing him from enjoying.

 

[RobG]

Gee, I would love to have that guy as a neighbor - not.

Pro tip, cut the roots on your side so it falls onto his property .

 

[RobG]

That's a well known example of the property rights extending above ground. The argument for that is you can't prevent another person from using his own land, including the airspace immediately above it. That's pretty much settled. (An example would be the tree branches preventing him from building a shed, but I don't think you need a real reason.)

On the other hand, a court case determined that you can annoy the F out of the guy by hovering a drone over his property and he can't legally shoot it down. This landowner deserves something like that for the way he is abusing the system to harass the defendants... I'd pitch in $20 to build a flock of drones....

To me the question is if the public's right to access public land outweighs whatever use crossing is preventing him from enjoying.

Did you hear that @BuzzH? Start a gofundme and stoop to the landowner's level and buy a flock of drones to annoy him.

 

[VikingsGuy]

Pro tip, cut the roots on your side so it falls onto his property .

Spike it with glyphosate and claim ignorance.

 

[Jamen]

Spike it with glyphosate and claim ignorance.

funny you say that i knew a guy and his neighbor was doing just that. She was drilling holes into the roots on her side and pouring chemicals into them.

 

[BrentD]

I'm just happy to pause and reflect on "when I was young"

You aren't old until you can't remember when you were young. I'm getting close.