Wyoming Corner Crossing Defense Fund

[antlerradar]

Beyond a reasonable doubt is 100% probability.

I would like to think so, but there are plenty of people that are 100% not guilty that have been convicted.
You also have the issue of a civil trial where the burden of proof is not as strict.

 

[El Jason]

I would like to think so, but there are plenty of people that are 100% not guilty that have been convicted.
You also have the issue of a civil trial where the burden of proof is not as strict.

Correct on both

 

[manitou1]

Call me crazy but I see a day where corner crossing will be legal as long as your intent is to cross to public land in a good faith effort; there are so many corners that aren't marked and even marked corners can be extremely difficult to find, but any reasonable judge would see that as long as your intent is to cross to public and you use a reasonable mapping app and make a best effort to minimize crossing of private property and don't damage private property in the process it's a benign act not worthy of prosecution. Not quite there yet but I think one day we will be.

My thoughts are in the other camp. Most of our politicians are ranchers. Do you think they will vote against their own special interests and agendas? (and pocketbooks)

 

[VikingsGuy]

My thoughts are in the other camp. Most of our politicians are ranchers. Do you think they will vote against their own special interests and agendas? (and pocketbooks)

Federal judges can do it if the legislators don’t.

 

[kwyeewyk]

My thoughts are in the other camp. Most of our politicians are ranchers. Do you think they will vote against their own special interests and agendas? (and pocketbooks)

No, and I don't think any time soon, maybe never legal, but eventually the public will demand access one way or another. Once the stones start to fall may well see a major effort to block up public land through exchanges and sales with newly willing sellers if they lose exclusive control of the checkerboard.

 

[RobG]

I could be wrong, but I don't think the Crazies are pinned. No way you would want to do this if you don't have video of you stepping over the pin.

The Crazies aren't a good place. If the pins are there, OnX is 100' or more off around there so don't use that. You could possibly use the lat/long, which is published, but realize you probably aren't going to find an obscured pin without stepping onto private land unless your device is extremely accurate.

The west side is in Park county and I know of two cases that weren't prosecuted there, so you won't get far there.

FWIW, the people raising the issues on both sides are multi-generational Montanans, including the county attorney.

 

[idahohuntr]

Once the stones start to fall may well see a major effort to block up public land through exchanges and sales with newly willing sellers if they lose exclusive control of the checkerboard.

Completely agree. I bet there are a lot of checkerboard and even folks with completely enclosed public lands that might want to come to the negotiating table that previously would have scoffed at any such suggestion. Will be important for public lands advocates to ensure we get a fair deal on any proposed trading.

 

[Pucky Freak]

My thoughts are in the other camp. Most of our politicians are ranchers. Do you think they will vote against their own special interests and agendas? (and pocketbooks)

 

[Bluffgruff]

I'm intuning that this only applies to federal lands that are corner-locked, but the "four" definitely crossed state lands to get where they were going. My question to people more aware of the implications of this case is, since there is no clear directive, if I cross state-state corners to only hunt those state sections, and there is no federal land to be accessed, does this ruling give me standing in court? What if I cross state-state corners, hunting state land, but there IS federal land to be accessed? Seems like I have excellent standing if I cross state-state to get to federal and am hunting on federal...

 

[VikingsGuy]

I'm intuning that this only applies to federal lands that are corner-locked, but the "four" definitely crossed state lands to get where they were going. My question to people more aware of the implications of this case is, since there is no clear directive, if I cross state-state corners to only hunt those state sections, and there is no federal land to be accessed, does this ruling give me standing in court? What if I cross state-state corners, hunting state land, but there IS federal land to be accessed? Seems like I have excellent standing if I cross state-state to get to federal and am hunting on federal...

If you need real legal advice then you need to talk to a WY-admitted lawyer. But for general discussion purposes, I would say for non-WY citizens (access to federal diversity jurisdiction) the court's ruling about "necessity" crossing would be good for fed and state, but the UIA portion that excused the "trespass" caused by grabbing the corner posts would not apply to state. Of course, the state legislature could make changes for state corners, and this case was a civil case and not a criminal case so still lots of litigation between now and a simple guaranteed answer.

 

[MNElkNut]

One worry I have is that a legislature and governorship controlled by one party could just up and pass a law making corner crossing illegal in that state. So facts of the case are critical and so is the timing of the action. So, is this the best time to test the waters in MT? Or would it be prudent to wait until there is a divided law making body? Will there even be a divided law making body in MT in the foreseeable future?

 

[Beignet]

Fella just can’t stop litigating. Must be some kind of addiction.

Ranch owner in corner-crossing case sues to unmask critic - WyoFile

After J. Doe said Eshelman ‘abused police resources,’ pharma magnate asked a judge to force Google to reveal critic’s true name.

wyofile.com

 

[seeth07]

How come Wyoming BHA hasn't setup a gathering event where a ladder is setup crossing that corner right along the road that the hunters in this case used and everyone crosses to their public land? Would be the ultimate FU to Mr. Eshelman

 

[Deleted member 18333]

How come Wyoming BHA hasn't setup a gathering event where a ladder is setup crossing that corner right along the road that the hunters in this case used and everyone crosses to their public land? Would be the ultimate FU to Mr. Eshelman

If even $0.01 of my BHA membership dues were used to pay for a lame stunt like this, BHA would never receive another dime from me.

 

[Irrelevant]

What a jackass. Someone needs to sue him.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

What a jackass. Someone needs to sue him.

I'd venture to guess he's seen some suits against him in his day but yeah, what a piece of work. No defamation necessary, he continues to eff himself with his own actions.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

I bet Fred has a deep hatred for wyofile

 

[winmag]

If even $0.01 of my BHA membership dues were used to pay for a lame stunt like this, BHA would never receive another dime from me.

BHA should have an event to instruct people on how to properly and respectfully cross corners, to avoid prosecution and to ensure they don’t touch private lands. And if that juuuuuust happened to be near Elk Mountain Ranch, I’d be okay with that.

 

[TOGIE]

Doe's lawyers should put out a fun public statement that it can't be defamation and the harming of a reputation if everybody else already felt the same way

a dickwads reputation precedes itself, mr. dickwad.

 

[Deleted member 18333]

BHA should have an event to instruct people on how to properly and respectfully cross corners, to avoid prosecution and to ensure they don’t touch private lands. And if that juuuuuust happened to be near Elk Mountain Ranch, I’d be okay with that.

Not sure I would want to part of an org that needed to instruct its members on how to step or use a ladder. YMMV