Wyo Task Force - Nonres Comments!

[Treeshark]

Forgive my ignorance on this, but for states with OIL in place for certain draws- do they typically allow a person to only draw the tag once and you’re done regardless of hunt outcome?

Or is it that you can only fill a tag once and then you can’t apply/draw for that species anymore?

 

[Pelican]

Forgive my ignorance on this, but for states with OIL in place for certain draws- do they typically allow a person to only draw the tag once and you’re done regardless of hunt outcome?

Or is it that you can only fill a tag once and then you can’t apply/draw for that species anymore?

Depends upon the state. UT is OIL regardless of whether you fill the tag. In ID, you can turn the tag back in if you don’t fill it and begin applying again after a couple year waiting period. At least this was the case a few years ago, but it may have changed.

 

[Outdoor Junkie]

The good news for you, if you're applying for basic deer and elk tags, assuming general elk, type 6 cow tags, and region wide deer tags...none of those will be impacted by 90-10.

In fact, if you're hunting general elk, it may increase your odds.

Sebastian and a few others are painting this as all doom and gloom...its not, far from it.

Also going to work with the commission/department/landowners to come up with more license types and increasing quotas for region tags for deer. I had some good conversations with a couple folks from the legislature and department yesterday to work on this...

Thanks Buzz.

That is actually my biggest concern. If it takes 8-10 years to get a general elk or deer tag in the area we have been going, then that’ll have a huge impact on my group buying points. We’re all 44-48 years old and that would give us only ~ 2 cycles through the points system while we’re still young enough to hike around the mountains. We’ve never been a group to chase the max point units, because we all like to hunt somewhere every year. Wyoming general region elk and deer tags offer really great hunting opportunities, so as long as that’s not affected then I’m actually not concerned. Appreciate the clarity and your work with the commission on getting a fair outcome.

 

[BuzzH]

Forgive my ignorance on this, but for states with OIL in place for certain draws- do they typically allow a person to only draw the tag once and you’re done regardless of hunt outcome?

Or is it that you can only fill a tag once and then you can’t apply/draw for that species anymore?

That came up regarding bison and Larry Hicks, one of the task force members made the perfect statement....it's about the opportunity to get to hunt a sheep, bison, etc not to provide an opportunity to just kill one. Hunters constantly say it's about the hunt, not the kill, then want to be able to draw multiple tags until they kill one. Once in a lifetime draw...not once in a lifetime kill.

 

[Lost Arra]

Are you going to fly or drive to Wyo to hunt doe antelope?

There you have it.
All of this hand wringing, the sky is falling is about antlers.
I'll admit I was concerned when I first heard about the possible changes but after studying things, I'm not too concerned about my continued Wyoming hunts.

I prefer to hunt every year with a cow tag and eat elk meat rather than sit at home and whine about point creep and tag allocations dreaming about a 350 bull. (Pro Tip: hunting with a cow tag guarantees up-close bull encounters, just without releasing the arrow)

The area I hunt is damn near impossible to draw a Type 1 at 84-16. Moving to 90-10 or 99-1 won't change a thing for me.

And yes Jims, I know a family that drives across the country to Wyoming with only cow elk tags and antelope doe tags.

 

[Shangobango]

Are you going to fly or drive to Wyo to hunt doe antelope?

Sure would. I am coming to hunt Wyoming next season if I have to buy a leftover antlerless/doe tag and pay a trespass fee or ask for permission to be able to hunt it.

Kicking myself for not getting in the leftover draw this year….

 

[Shangobango]

@BuzzH

When/if yall go to 90/10 for DEA, do you think it will go to 50/50 random/preference as well? I know for me personally that would sure take some of the sting away from the reduced allocations.

Also has there been any or will there be any discussion of the general elk and region deer tags also going to 50/50 random/preference if the LE DEA hunts go to 90/10?

Sorry if this has been answered and I missed it.

 

[ccc23454]

That came up regarding bison and Larry Hicks, one of the task force members made the perfect statement....it's about the opportunity to get to hunt a sheep, bison, etc not to provide an opportunity to just kill one. Hunters constantly say it's about the hunt, not the kill, then want to be able to draw multiple tags until they kill one. Once in a lifetime draw...not once in a lifetime kill.

A "tag" is a carcass tag not a admission ticket, if a hunter isnt afforded a oppurtunity at ANY legal animal thru no fault of his/her own i dont like it being OIL. Every other big 5 has significant oppurtunity and if you wanted could even be improved thru things like guides etc. Bison is unique and sitting on a national park waiting on weather that may never come or may not even matter, bison due what they do! I just view it as different and should remain under current statue. If it goes OIL it should be a tag good for a full calendar year to improve chances.

 

[Wildabeest]

Buzz mentioned the good news above but the truth to the matter is that nonres that are flipping the bill paying for 77% of license and pref pt revenue are interested in high demand limited tags that they spend high $ on pref pt fees each year. Wyo res pay $0.00/year in pref pt fees each year for deer, elk, and antelope.

When you add up all the pref pt fees for sheep, moose, deer, elk, and antelope a nonres hunter could potentially pay $438/year for pref pt/application fees for these 5 species. If multiplied by 10 years that is $4,380 just to apply for pref pts!

Nonres have been paying pref pt for up to $25 years and Wyo res have paid $0.00 for pref pts for deer, elk, and antelope over this time!

The sad part about it is that 90/10 will strip nonres of 1/2 of the limited high demand tags and the draw odds for residents for the premium unit tags that they concerned about drawing won't hardly increase at all.

View attachment 187887

 

[Hilljackoutlaw]

@jimss ur like a little kid who got his lolli taken away. Just shut up

 

[Treeshark]

That came up regarding bison and Larry Hicks, one of the task force members made the perfect statement....it's about the opportunity to get to hunt a sheep, bison, etc not to provide an opportunity to just kill one. Hunters constantly say it's about the hunt, not the kill, then want to be able to draw multiple tags until they kill one. Once in a lifetime draw...not once in a lifetime kill.

I get it, makes sense to me. Was just curious, I wasn’t sure how most states did it.

 

[Bob-WY]

Jim's try being honest, this isn't politics.

You keep saying residents dont pay for pref points for deer, elk, antelope. That's because they don't exist. Some tags are hard, some very hard to draw for residents. Yes deer and elk have general tags, but those, especially elk have big limitations

 

[Dougfirtree]

So Icebreaker12, it looks like you live in PA. How's the mule deer, elk, and antelope hunting in your state and how often do you draw those tags? How many kids do you have and are you willing to fork out $438/year for each one of them just to apply each of them for sheep, moose, elk, deer, and antelope pref pts? Do you seriously want to pay for a small game license in addition to the $438 for pref pt fees? Wyo res pay $0.00 each year for deer, elk, and antelope.

We can beat the dead horse all day until you get it! Even though Wyo res want a bigger piece of the pie it takes a choke hold on Wyo res to increase tag prices and they haven't shown interest in doing this.

How many nonres just starting out applying are going to pick Wyo when it would take twice as long to draw the same tags after 90/10 and it costs $124/year just to apply for deer, elk, and antelope each year with horrible draw odds? They can come hunt Colo elk every year without paying for pref pt fees and receive up to 35% of limited deer, elk, and antelope tags issued? Like I've been saying all along if 90/10 passes in Wyo it will likely happen in Colo. Then what options do PA hunters have to hunt mule deer, elk, and antelope on a regular basis? Are you going to fly or drive to Wyo to hunt doe antelope?

I fly across the country every chance I get to hunt doe antelope and cow elk. I've never actually had a tag in Wyoming that was good for something with antlers/horns... Though, I will be bummed if it becomes much harder for my family to draw type 4 cow tags.

 

[BuzzH]

A "tag" is a carcass tag not a admission ticket, if a hunter isnt afforded a oppurtunity at ANY legal animal thru no fault of his/her own i dont like it being OIL. Every other big 5 has significant oppurtunity and if you wanted could even be improved thru things like guides etc. Bison is unique and sitting on a national park waiting on weather that may never come or may not even matter, bison due what they do! I just view it as different and should remain under current statue. If it goes OIL it should be a tag good for a full calendar year to improve chances.

Totally disagree, we aren't selling a kill, we're selling opportunity.

When there's a waiting list a mile long, there is nobody that should have 2 any bison tags before everyone has had one...kill or no kill. Its called hunting for a reason, and everyone that applies for bison knows the deal.

If you want another try after drawing your first tag, buy a governors tag, apply for the tag Gordon is providing, super tag, or tri-fecta tag. Or you could also apply for a cow/calf tag.

If all you're after is the kill, then I'd suggest a ranch hunt.

 

[BuzzH]

Wait, so their legislature doesn’t want to increase fees for their constituents so they can get re-elected? But they are happy to increase fees for NR who don’t vote for them?

This is a shocking revelation.

FYI - I was in Wyoming last fall with two doe whitetail tags.

Also, CO is currently at like 65/35 and just had a bill die trying to limit them to 66/33. Take that fear mongering elsewhere.

All,

Here's the reality on revenue and I testified to this to the task force.

The revenue loss will be $198,000 if the big 5 go 90-10.

We could raise $222,540/year by simply raising annual resident fishing licenses $3. Which, I'm inclined to believe is a good idea since fishing revenue doesn't come to close to covering expenses.

We could raise 1.486 million by charging residents another $10 per full price big game tag...or $724,000 by charging just $5 more. I provided that testimony to the task force and was thanked by several regarding how easy it is to increase funding. If there is a "plus" side to this increase in demand, its that license sales increase (thinking fishing and OTC tags).

IMO, reduced priced anterless tags are stupid cheap...I didn't crunch the numbers, but there is NO way a type 6 doe pronghorn tag should be less than $50.

I think another thing that needs to be considered is the business entities that profit from wildlife, they need to start pitching in if they're going to have a seat at the table.

Sebastian keeps whining about lost revenue...its not an issue and residents, reduced price tags, and businesses that profit from wildlife need to start paying more.

 

[ccc23454]

Totally disagree, we aren't selling a kill, we're selling opportunity.

When there's a waiting list a mile long, there is nobody that should have 2 any bison tags before everyone has had one...kill or no kill. Its called hunting for a reason, and everyone that applies for bison knows the deal.

If you want another try after drawing your first tag, buy a governors tag, apply for the tag Gordon is providing, super tag, or tri-fecta tag. Or you could also apply for a cow/calf tag.

If all your after is the kill, then I'd suggest a ranch hunt.

Thats my point the oppurtunity may not even be there, is G&F going to offer a Red Desert Mountain Goat tag next to "sell oppurtunity"? And its not a mile long list bull odds both res and nr was 8.5% reasonable expectaions to draw tag every 12 years? How many DEA tags have a lower draw odds and they will never be considered for OIL status and rightfully so. Cow NR was 29%, res 14.7%. Combined all 4 tags offering both r/nr 9.8% odds of drawing a tag, thats not a "mile long list" if the hardest to draw can expect to draw every 12 years (using 21 draw odds). I just dont understand why a well written statue that already makes bison OIL if tag is used needs to be rewritten, this was all addressed in the 2013 statue. This aint broke, stop trying to fix it. Sheep should 100% agree OIL but i just dont get the bison side of things. Anyways, keep up good work with the task force and thanks for working on this stuff!

 

[ccc23454]

IMO, reduced priced anterless tags are stupid cheap...I didn't crunch the numbers, but there is NO way a type 6 doe pronghorn tag should be less than $50.

I know sen Hicks addressed in his bill but NR turkey needs to double fee, currently its half the price of SD and same piece of land.

 

[BuzzH]

Thats my point the oppurtunity may not even be there, is G&F going to offer a Red Desert Mountain Goat tag next to "sell oppurtunity"? And its not a mile long list bull odds both res and nr was 8.5% reasonable expectaions to draw tag every 12 years? How many DEA tags have a lower draw odds and they will never be considered for OIL status and rightfully so. Cow NR was 29%, res 14.7%. Combined all 4 tags offering both r/nr 9.8% odds of drawing a tag, thats not a "mile long list" if the hardest to draw can expect to draw every 12 years (using 21 draw odds). I just dont understand why a well written statue that already makes bison OIL if tag is used needs to be rewritten, this was all addressed in the 2013 statue. This aint broke, stop trying to fix it. Sheep should 100% agree OIL but i just dont get the bison side of things. Anyways, keep up good work with the task force and thanks for working on this stuff!

Because its not a well written statute and is a complicated P.O.S. with bison...and its currently NOT OIL if you use your tag.

Jennifer Doering had to put up a flow chart with about 25 boxes on how everything works with the current bison tag situation. Its the most convoluted mess I've ever seen...a joke really.

Part of the reason for the task force is to also simplify the draw process. Something that has been an issue since Talbot was the Director. Look at the NR draw...what a complete cluster shag.

Any bison tags are going once in a lifetime draw and it needs to. The thought process is that if bison numbers increase or we don't have enough applicants (yeah right)...they can just add another license type for cows (which is how you control population).

 

[BWALKER77]

Resident tag prices aren't a pittance to me. Speak for yourself, how much are resident tags where you reside. I see you didn't include your home state in your info.

Resident elk tag is something like $20.

 

[Irrelevant]

That came up regarding bison and Larry Hicks, one of the task force members made the perfect statement....it's about the opportunity to get to hunt a sheep, bison, etc not to provide an opportunity to just kill one. Hunters constantly say it's about the hunt, not the kill, then want to be able to draw multiple tags until they kill one. Once in a lifetime draw...not once in a lifetime kill.

While I agree with the sentiment I think that's a great way to kill nannies.