WY 2021 deer/antelope results

[RobertD]

Anyone have data showing long term sales/demand of NR whitetail tags in the Midwest? @wllm1313?

Interested to know if it’s actually gone down.

Edit: he was typing at the same time I was.

I've been trying to set aside some time to explore those numbers myself. It's difficult though, because you need several states worth of info and have to examine how allocation changed over the years plus where disease truncated demand by removing a big share of supply.

Edit: Here's a link to an article where Pat Durkin made an attempt to do some of what we're talking about.

Nonresident Hunter Numbers in Many States on the Rise

Despite the decline in hunter numbers, a recent study shows nonresident hunter numbers are increasing.

www.nrahlf.org

From what he found, it looks like the trend is less "More west, less whitetail," and more "More NRs, less residents."

 

[RobertD]

Given that there are more whitetail in PA than elk in the US I don’t think demand will decrease.

This is where my qualitative conjecture crashes and dies against the rocks of your quantitative data.

Of course, animals that exist and animals that are accessible are two different things. Hence your CO-goes-90/10 example I guess.

I probably sound like the last buffalo hunter in Miles City, waiting for the return of the good old days and making predictions I can't back up. Or maybe I'm more like the guys in the housing market thread, can't tell you why it's a bubble but man it feels like a bubble!

 

[rwc101]

Maybe people will get jaded with western hunting media like they got with fat guys shooting whitetails over cornfield on private land. Come on, Hushin, we're counting on you.

 

[IsThisHeaven?]

My group drew antelope tags with 5 points and mule deer tags with 9 points. We are really excited to head back to Wyoming this fall. It looks like we are done buying points and applying in Wyoming.

 

[RobertD]

It looks like we are done buying points and applying in Wyoming.

Why? If you don't mind my asking.

 

[IsThisHeaven?]

Why? If you don't mind my asking.

It seems as though the NR tag cuts will happen in the next few years. That’s a concern, along with potential fee/cost increases. Moving the goal posts after committing to buying points is not something we are interested in continuing with. And I understand all the talking points about points not guaranteeing tags, etc.

Honestly, the anti-NR sentiment is a big deterrent for our group. We enjoy hunting in Wyoming, but we enjoy hunting other areas too. I understand we are NR and the wildlife belongs to the state, yada yada yada. We paid special tag prices for both of our tags this year. Clicking submit on that purchase was tough. It may not be a lot of money for some people, but it is for everyone in our group. The regular tag prices are a lot of money for us. Spending that amount of money while being told it’s basically meaningless makes it easy to spend that money elsewhere.

In the end, the cost, cutting NR tags, anti-NR sentiment and general hassle of it all just is not worth it to us anymore. We have other things we will do and enjoy as much or more. We were not planning to burn our points this year but decided too after the 90/10 and price increase talk.

I can tell you, for me, after drawing the tags and having no commitment to Wyoming preference points, it was absolutely the right thing to do.

 

[BrentD]

Why? If you don't mind my asking.

Really? You can't figure that out?

I know I'm done with elk if i ever draw and I may throw in the towel before I draw because it just doesn't make sense to keep buying points in the face of the creep rate. Deer I am totally done with and antelope remains a maybe because I have stupidly invested in points already, and more stupidly, I may throw good money after bad in hopes that things may get better by some miracle.

Man, it makes no sense to put in for a hunt that you cannot, in a lifetime, draw starting with zero points next year, so that's easy.

 

[RobertD]

Really? You can't figure that out?

It isn't hard to read between the lines, no. But there are a lot of factors in a given person's decision and I thought it'd be nice to hear the details that went into his. Hope that's okay with you.

 

[RobertD]

It seems as though the NR tag cuts will happen in the next few years. That’s a concern, along with potential fee/cost increases. Moving the goal posts after committing to buying points is not something we are interested in continuing with. And I understand all the talking points about points not guaranteeing tags, etc.

Honestly, the anti-NR sentiment is a big deterrent for our group. We enjoy hunting in Wyoming, but we enjoy hunting other areas too. I understand we are NR and the wildlife belongs to the state, yada yada yada. We paid special tag prices for both of our tags this year. Clicking submit on that purchase was tough. It may not be a lot of money for some people, but it is for everyone in our group. The regular tag prices are a lot of money for us. Spending that amount of money while being told it’s basically meaningless makes it easy to spend that money elsewhere.

In the end, the cost, cutting NR tags, anti-NR sentiment and general hassle of it all just is not worth it to us anymore. We have other things we will do and enjoy as much or more. We were not planning to burn our points this year but decided too after the 90/10 and price increase talk.

I can tell you, for me, after drawing the tags and having no commitment to Wyoming preference points, it was absolutely the right thing to do.

Thank you for the thorough answer, those details are what I was interested in. And I certainly understand the motivation behind your decision.

 

[jabber]

My son and I have double digit points in Wyoming, utah, nevada, colorado and Arizona. Based on the majority of the factors, creep/reduced tags, increased cost and increased age (mine) at this time I imagine I will stop the point game as we draw tags. There might be a couple of exceptions ( at this time thinking Co. and AZ deer and Idaho as long as no points). After that I will like do more hunting at home, and maybe do a trip to Canada every couple of years. If things change for the positive for us NR's my outlook might change, but at this time my help in funding the west will be reducing every year for the foreseeable future.

 

[greatwhitebuffalo]

"anti-NR sentiment"

To be fair, we don't like residents either.

 

[rwc101]

The only non-residents I don't like are the ones that want to sell off our public lands or hand over wildlife management to the feds because they didn't draw a tag. Otherwise I hate everyone I run into hunting equally.

 

[BuzzH]

Bunch of quitters...

Anyone throwing their sucker in the dirt wasn't that serious to start with.

I'll only quit applying everywhere when I'm dead.

Even then, my will is going to force a few folks to take some trips on me...

Wouldn't want to see my money wasted on dumb stuff like houses and cars.

 

[jabber]

Bunch of quitters...

kind of like you and New Mexico

 

[BuzzH]

kind of like you and New Mexico

Yep, I'm a quitter in New Mexico and added Illinois WT and a yearly AK fishing trip because I was so tore up about it.

Probably would have kept applying for oryx if it wasn't OIL...and I have no desire to shoot a broken horn.

 

[406LIFE]

Yep, I'm a quitter in New Mexico and added Illinois WT and a yearly AK fishing trip because I was so tore up about it.

Probably would have kept applying for oryx if it wasn't OIL...and I have no desire to shoot a broken horn.

Gotta say, the oryx is worth it.

 

[Pucky Freak]

The date when blue and red lines intersect is when my IA squirrel-hunting career takes off in earnest.

 

[Shangobango]

It seems as though the NR tag cuts will happen in the next few years. That’s a concern, along with potential fee/cost increases. Moving the goal posts after committing to buying points is not something we are interested in continuing with. And I understand all the talking points about points not guaranteeing tags, etc.

Honestly, the anti-NR sentiment is a big deterrent for our group. We enjoy hunting in Wyoming, but we enjoy hunting other areas too. I understand we are NR and the wildlife belongs to the state, yada yada yada. We paid special tag prices for both of our tags this year. Clicking submit on that purchase was tough. It may not be a lot of money for some people, but it is for everyone in our group. The regular tag prices are a lot of money for us. Spending that amount of money while being told it’s basically meaningless makes it easy to spend that money elsewhere.

In the end, the cost, cutting NR tags, anti-NR sentiment and general hassle of it all just is not worth it to us anymore. We have other things we will do and enjoy as much or more. We were not planning to burn our points this year but decided too after the 90/10 and price increase talk.

I can tell you, for me, after drawing the tags and having no commitment to Wyoming preference points, it was absolutely the right thing to do.

Great post.

Attrition due to some of these impending changes is something I personally think is being underrated.

Only time will tell.

 

[Shangobango]

Yep, I'm a quitter in New Mexico and added Illinois WT and a yearly AK fishing trip because I was so tore up about it.

Probably would have kept applying for oryx if it wasn't OIL...and I have no desire to shoot a broken horn.

Great points.

I think that we will see a lot of these types of shifts as NR allocations decline and prices increase in the West.

 

[antelopedundee]

You can hunt it with me! And I'm not a guide. Just have to make nice with folks in WY you can hunt with if your keen on it. I think it's buffalo chip for the most part, but seeing as how the grizzly bear numbers and encounters are going up and hunting does pose a significant risk for a negative encounter, its not a bad idea to be back in some of those places with someone who is used to being in bear country if you aren't. I guess maybe they look at it as reducing liability? Course the hikers are on their own, but they don't carry around bags of meat and let off gunshots

As someone said to me years ago, there's no law against hunting with a friend. If you're stopped by a warden in a wilderness area and your "friend" isn't a guide does he give you a pass or a citation? Also in some places unlicensed people will "guide" you for a fee and I'm sure most folks [including the wardens] in the area know who they area.