Wolves Have Been Released

[44hunter45]

Any studies on an apex predator slowing spread of CWD? Seems like an infected animal that starts to feel a little "woozy" would be taken out first and thus stopping its ability to spread the prions to others through direct contact. Of course the prions remain in the environment, but just trying to find a positive to this whole thing.

You wanna take this one @Hunting Wife?

I personally wonder more about what happens when a predator who can cover 30 miles a day shits out prions in new virgin territory. Seems more likely to me that wolves are a vector, not a cure.

CWD prions remain infectious after passage through the digestive system of coyotes (Canis latrans)

Chronic wasting disease (CWD) is a geographically expanding prion disease of wild and captive cervids in North America. Disease can be transmitted directly, animal to animal, or indirectly via the environment. CWD contamination can occur residually in ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Oak]

 

[cedahm]

I had sound off since I’m en route to Hockey, but The opening scene in this is exactly the image I had in my mind of the tactic-cool guys roaming around Trough Road this summer after the release location reports.

 

[TheTone]

Should we all watch The Grey as a group film project?

 

[44hunter45]

Do you think the majority of DOW management in Oregon are conservative? From what 2011 said happened in E. Oregon with ballot box biology affecting the caribou and moose population, sounds to me that the majorit just might be anti-hunting.

Caribou hunting in Oregon lost forever. Damn liberals.

 

[44hunter45]

Wolves are hunted in Montana. They will not be in Colorado.

Just like mountain lions in California, when wolves are an issue in Colorado, USDA APHIS will kill them with great efficiency. It just won't be sport hunters.

 

[tjones]

Those barstool biologists will definitely need to get blueprints from the folks down in Hank’s neck of the woods that built the wolf protection huts at school bus stops:

View attachment 307427

New anti-wolf, anti-fed film features "wolf cages" to protect kids - High Country News

Driving through southwestern New Mexico this summer, I passed one of the area’s wolf-proof school bus stops. I’d heard about the enclosures for years and couldn’t resist pulling off Highway 180 onto State Road 32 to check one out in person. More recently, the cages have been featured in a new...

www.hcn.org

 

[Desk Pop]

And I agree with you that is why I said the mountain west is different than WI. Was simply pointing out that in some cases hunting/trapping can be effective. Obviously not all.

And I didn't loon but I would assume thay wolves per square mile is more dense in WI than the mountain west too.

Definitely a different scenario, as you pointed out, but glad there was some killing done in WI when you all had the chance.

 

[SD_Prairie_Goat]

What do you think of childless renters voting on school levies?

No issue. Technically speaking from an economists point of view, if they vote in favor they'll end up paying extra in rent to account for the additional taxes paid for by the landowner.

Not saying that would always happen in every scenario, but it should in theory

 

[Gus Chiggins]

Caribou hunting in Oregon lost forever. Damn liberals.

There may be confusion here.

I said forest caribou in Washington couldn’t establish likely due to wolves. From an article re moose numbers in Oregon.

Not sure why its funny but whatever. Easier to laugh at other people’s problems than your own. Id rather have moose than wolves in NE Oregon.

The state of moose

I was on Salmo Mountain in Washington state, way up next to the border with British Columbia when I found an odd track, about 4 inches long — not an

www.lagrandeobserver.com

 

[44hunter45]

There may be confusion here.

I said forest caribou in Washington couldn’t establish likely due to wolves. From an article re moose numbers in Oregon.

Not sure why its funny but whatever. Easier to laugh at other people’s problems than your own. Id rather have moose than wolves in NE Oregon.

The state of moose

I was on Salmo Mountain in Washington state, way up next to the border with British Columbia when I found an odd track, about 4 inches long — not an

www.lagrandeobserver.com

I am familiar with Mr Lewis' article. It has been trotted out here before.

It simply illogical to blame the wolves entirely for the downfall of the mountain caribou in NE Washington and Northern Idaho. Wolves are likely a factor, yes. But maybe Mr Lewis "forest biologist" source also told him that the mountain caribou's primary food source has been lost due to habitat degradation. That major changes in forestry management and harvest practice were recommended in the caribou recovery roadmap to try to save their food source. Mr Lewis certainly did not put that in his P.O.S. article. It's kind of hard for caribou to run from wuffs on an empty stomach.

Mr Lewis then implies through the strangest bit of logical gymnastics that if there were caribou in Oregon, we certainly would NEVER let the wolves eat them. (Like those Washington people did) But we are going to let the wolves eat the moose.

Even Mr Lewis must know there has not yet been archeological or oral history evidence presented of mountain caribou in Oregon (1). So why all that claptrap about
caribou a 6 1/2 hour drive north of La Grande? What does that have to do with moose in the Blues at all? This BTW is what I found amusing in the OP's post about caribou in Oregon.

To summarize. Mr Lewis makes a gratuitous assertion about an unrelated topic, then wants his reader to believe that this supports his fatuous claims.
7th grade journalism.

If we are going to demand agencies follow the NAM and apply science in management choices, we ought maybe to cite actual peer reviewed studies instead of La Grande's newspaper.

1. (B.N. McClellan "An Historic Perspective of Mountain Caribou Distribution and Abundance" - 2017)

 

[Westelker - W. Colorado]

Not going to argue with an expert such as yourself. Personally I've never seen the sharp end of a wolf. Only their ass as they got outta dodge.

I'm no wolf expert and I highly doubt a wolf would ever charge human. However, if a pack of wolves were circling me, I'm damn well going to have my rifle loaded and cocked, just in case I see the sharp end.

 

[Ben Lamb]

If you're serious about wolf protection, get a sleeve of tennis balls and start hucking them when the pack circles you.

They just want to play fetch.

The only thing that makes wolf management hard is people. I hope Colorado learns from the mistakes & successes that other states have had.

 

[appaloosa]

According "to the graphics in this paper" the mathematical mean is roughly 900-1,000 between 1985 and 1996.

I have always asserted "woofs" are not the sole culprit, no matter how you may desire to misreprsent my statement.

What I shared is the fact bears and cougars have been present throughout as predators. Wolves were introduced in 1995.

View attachment 307384

Various studies present an issue with birthing linked to malnutrition that is further linked to climate change and predators (as I shared). A significant reduction as the wolf population increased while adding to the bears and cougars.

There is a visible farce when people proclaim "woofs" do not increase the mortality rate of ungulates when added to the list of predators.

From "this paper":
"This decline is due to a variety of factors, including habitat deterioration, recolonization of wolves and grizzly bears, warming temperatures due to climate change, disease and parasites,and vehicle collision mortalities"

Can we at least agree that wolves have been recognized as one of SIX causes of mortality in moose in the valley and never been identified as the sole cause of their decline?

 

[Gus Chiggins]

I am familiar with Mr Lewis' article. It has been trotted out here before.

It simply illogical to blame the wolves entirely for the downfall of the mountain caribou in NE Washington and Northern Idaho. Wolves are likely a factor, yes. But maybe Mr Lewis "forest biologist" source also told him that the mountain caribou's primary food source has been lost due to habitat degradation. That major changes in forestry management and harvest practice were recommended in the caribou recovery roadmap to try to save their food source. Mr Lewis certainly did not put that in his P.O.S. article. It's kind of hard for caribou to run from wuffs on an empty stomach.

Mr Lewis then implies through the strangest bit of logical gymnastics that if there were caribou in Oregon, we certainly would NEVER let the wolves eat them. (Like those Washington people did) But we are going to let the wolves eat the moose.

Even Mr Lewis must know there has not yet been archeological or oral history evidence presented of mountain caribou in Oregon (1). So why all that claptrap about
caribou a 6 1/2 hour drive north of La Grande? What does that have to do with moose in the Blues at all? This BTW is what I found amusing in the OP's post about caribou in Oregon.

To summarize. Mr Lewis makes a gratuitous assertion about an unrelated topic, then wants his reader to believe that this supports his fatuous claims.
7th grade journalism.

If we are going to demand agencies follow the NAM and apply science in management choices, we ought maybe to cite actual peer reviewed studies instead of La Grande's newspaper.

1. (B.N. McClellan "An Historic Perspective of Mountain Caribou Distribution and Abundance" - 2017)

The article also mentions lions as a factor in quashing moose population growth in NE Oregon.

I rely on personal observation, not just academic logic. I grew up in NE Oregon, and hunted the Wenaha, Walla Walla and Mt Emily units from the good old days (pre 1990s restrictions on lions and bear), up to now — at least, when i can even draw a simple spike bull tag.

Hunting has drastically changed for the worse, and with status quo management (a misnomer, surely), it is not going to improve. For years ODFW wolf packs maps reflect a large portion of my “own” hunting areas covered by multiple overlapping wolf packs. Plenty of wolf and lion sign all around.

So we can argue all the “logic” we want, but my 30+ hunting years of experience (plus time observations before that) including where moose were starting to establish, leads me to conclude that lack of good predator control, plus rapid expansion of wolves over the past 15-20 years, has been the primary factor in decreased big game populations, and Oregon moose.

It is therefore also not surprising (or, not outside the realm of logical possibility) if wolves were a big factor in preventing forest caribou expansion in Washington. Thats why i again “trotted out” the article, but thought it helpful for the broader discussion. Apparently not.

Regardless, how this relates to Colorado is with introduced wolves and the potential for material restrictions on lion and bear hunting, there will be problems down range that cannot logically be blamed on everything except predation.

 

[Deleted member 52098]

Should we all watch The Grey as a group film project?

Will there be snacks and popcorn?

 

[brymoore]

What do you think of childless renters voting on school levies?

Strong schools increase the value of the property.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

If you're serious about wolf protection, get a sleeve of tennis balls and start hucking them when the pack circles you.

They just want to play fetch.

The only thing that makes wolf management hard is people. I hope Colorado learns from the mistakes & successes that other states have had.

I also recommend cheese puffs and peanut butter.

Come on folks we did it once we can do it again

 

[JT88]

The other Christmas meals thread has me thinking, I wonder what the new wolves in CO will be having for Christmas dinner?

 

[Dave N]

The other Christmas meals thread has me thinking, I wonder what the new wolves in CO will be having for Christmas dinner?

Anything they want.