Wolves delisting imminent

[old school]

Sadly it’s turned into a political mess instead of a science based solution. I just look at what the wolves did in Idaho to the elk herd and think of what will happen in Colorado as well.
Reintroducing wolves and thinking it will improve elk/deer habitat and hunting is like thinking by introducing a cat in the barn it will help the mouse habitat/population.

 

[MNElkNut]

Just took the Minnesota Wolf survey. It is available to nonresidents as well. I think the more ungulate hunter responses we can get the better. here is the linky if anyone is interested in commenting:

Wolf Plan Update

So far in the wolf plan update process, the DNR has conducted a scientific public opinion survey, consulted with technical experts and tribal staff, convened a 20-member wolf advisory committee, and solicited public input. Public input in 2020 included virtual open

engage.dnr.state.mn.us

 

[Dave N]

Done.

 

[VikingsGuy]

Done.

Done (survey that is). The gist of my answers - I want them around, just at manageable numbers, wary of humans and not a felony to protect my dogs.

 

[Ben Lamb]

Done - I want them around, just at manageable numbers, wary of humans and not a felony to protect my dogs.

Killing an animal that is attacking your property is allowable under the ESA. You would not be charged with anything.

 

[VikingsGuy]

Killing an animal that is attacking your property is allowable under the ESA. You would not be charged with anything.

I am reluctant to argue with you in this field, but . . . . . . . I did a little checking. I was wrong about felony. It is a federal misdemeanor and the only exception while listed is life/harm to a person - pets don't count for exception. Under MN law it is a gross misdemeanor, but allows for protection of pets and livestock.

 

[Dave N]

Done.

Just to clarify, I did the survey, meaning "done".

 

[Zach]

The way it is looking, your rivers in Colorado might be saved. Soon. mtmuley

late to the game, but I'm looking forward to the coming attractions at RMNP....

 

[Dsnow9]

late to the game, but I'm looking forward to the coming attractions at RMNP....

They will not be in rmnp, I believe the ballot states western slope/nw corner of the state.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

They will not be in rmnp, I believe the ballot states western slope/nw corner of the state.

"designated lands west of the continental divide"

But yes I agree it is going to be the flattops.

No CO National Park will have wolves, given the nature of the flattops the only people who are likely to ever encounter wolves are hunters and ranchers.

Will be interesting how that pill is swallowed given the bear depredation that goes on in the flat tops, per Oak a single permittee killed 83 bears in 3 years in the flattops.

 

[old school]

Done - Thanks

 

[Losing_Sanity]

Wolves rebound, lose protections. Now future up to voters - Local News 8

The saucer-sized footprints in the mud around the bloody, disemboweled bison carcass were unmistakable: wolves.

localnews8.com

 

[diamond hitch]

Mt had timber wolves until they planted Alberta pack wolves. Same effect as bucket biology. Haven't seen a shootable buck in seven years. Hell Montana can't even manage cats let alone wolves. We need to manage FWP and USFWS.

 

[El Jason]

Mt had timber wolves until they planted Alberta pack wolves.

LOLZ

 

[SAJ-99]

That study was thoroughly disproved stop trying to push it. If you actually believe in science then try using real science.

https://www.accuweather.com/en/weather-news/scientists-debunk-myth-that-yellowstone-wolves-changed-entire-ecosystem-flow-of-rivers/349988#:~:text=Scientists%20debunk%20myth%20that%20Yellowstone%20wolves%20changed%20entire%20ecosystem%2C%20flow%20of%20rivers,-By%20Michael%20Kuhne&text=As%20the%20willows%20grew%2C%20they,University%20ecologist%20Dan%20McNulty%20said.

Here is a paper of a recent study (I'm not sure the author knew he was studying a debunked idea). Even reading the one you attached, a quick review will show the experts cited have other articles supporting the idea of trophic cascade, to varying degrees. I'm sure reality is much more complex than what we want it to be.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/05/200528160514.htm

 

[Ben Lamb]

I am reluctant to argue with you in this field, but . . . . . . . I did a little checking. I was wrong about felony. It is a federal misdemeanor and the only exception while listed is life/harm to a person - pets don't count for exception. Under MN law it is a gross misdemeanor, but allows for protection of pets and livestock.

It's up to the investigating officer to determine charges. 9 times out of 10, protecting your property won't get you fined or charged. USFWS law enforcement does a good job of not being dbags about this stuff, especially with a recovered species. I'll pay your fine if they charge you.

 

[VikingsGuy]

It's up to the investigating officer to determine charges. 9 times out of 10, protecting your property won't get you fined or charged. USFWS law enforcement does a good job of not being dbags about this stuff, especially with a recovered species. I'll pay your fine if they charge you.

A guy 10 miles from my cabin got $50,000 fine and 90 days in federal prison for protecting his hunting dog back in 2014ish. As discussed in other threads, leaving bad laws up to the independent discretion of law enforcement isn't the ideal way to run a system. Pretty much the locals learned that doing the right thing and reporting the incident is a bad idea and now there is a county of SSS advocates. As someone who tries to follow the law in all areas, I don't agree with this approach, but this is no way to run a conservation system. We are making enemies of the very people that should be our allies by not using common sense.

 

[Zach]

They will not be in rmnp, I believe the ballot states western slope/nw corner of the state.

They will be there eventually, you disagree with that?

 

[mtmiller]

A guy 10 miles from my cabin got $50,000 fine and 90 days in federal prison for protecting his hunting dog back in 2014ish.

Do you have any details on this? I couldn't find anything.

 

[VikingsGuy]

Do you have any details on this? I couldn't find anything.

It was in the local rag back in the day but quick google did not find an internet version. There are about 15-20 dog kills a year in northern NMN. Give the population is 2x the target capacity and white tail numbers are down in this area, it's not surprising. There is no fear of people in the ones around our place - they just stand and stare at you. I don't want them extinct, but a healthy respect for humans would be an improvement in our area.