Winter kill update

[Kearnsie14]

I notice that in a few areas in southern WY they’ve proposed to actually increase cow/calf elk tags and that confuses me. I assumed that all of southern WY got smoked and that tags would be reduced (or stay the same, at best). Is that incorrect? Or are elk just faring better? I hear conflicting things about that.

 

[Watts307]

I notice that in a few areas in southern WY they’ve proposed to actually increase cow/calf elk tags and that confuses me. I assumed that all of southern WY got smoked and that tags would be reduced (or stay the same, at best). Is that incorrect? Or are elk just faring better? I hear conflicting things about that.

Maybe trying to convince people to not hunt antelope and give another option. I am not sure. I have heard everything had a rough winter but cant imagine the elk hurting like antelope. I watched a group of 20 antelope from my front porch try and jump a fence and a lot were dragging bellies on the snow.

 

[madtom]

I notice that in a few areas in southern WY they’ve proposed to actually increase cow/calf elk tags and that confuses me. I assumed that all of southern WY got smoked and that tags would be reduced (or stay the same, at best). Is that incorrect? Or are elk just faring better? I hear conflicting things about that.

Elk are both way hardier for winter and way over objective for most of the state. They’ll still be way over objective even with the snow tipping a few over.

 

[perma]

There’s a bit of a “heheh” moment in the midst of all this. Imagine Wyoming doing a price increase for tags for 2024 and everyone jumping in for 2023. Then, boom. Mother Nature has her opinion on how much snow we get. Then boom, tag reduction. Twice. Get your spotter out and look for those stars that aligned. Uncle Randy was right and this winter really puts the icing on the cake.

 

[madtom]

There’s a bit of a “heheh” moment in the midst of all this. Imagine Wyoming doing a price increase for tags for 2024 and everyone jumping in for 2023. Then, boom. Mother Nature has her opinion on how much snow we get. Then boom, tag reduction. Twice. Get your spotter out and look for those stars that aligned. Uncle Randy was right and this winter really puts the icing on the cake.

 

[WYelker]

The new numbers are better but in some cases not nearly enough…

 

[appaloosa]

W

The new numbers are better but in some cases not nearly enough…

Where, and why?

 

[WYelker]

W

Where, and why?

So in W they are expecting over 50% adult mortality, and right now they only dropped NR quota 20%. I would suspect they might want to match.

There appears to be only one general unit in the state where youth will be able to shot a mule deer doe, that is unit 100…. A unit that got destroyed by this winter and has a very small resident herd anyways. I am afraid that keeping that unit open to youth doe harvest will bring in hunters. It really can’t support doe harvest on a normal year as it has been below objective.

There are definitely units around lander that did not get enough cuts. It was bad here and all the way east of Riverton.

Lots are good but just a few areas where it feels like a little more. At least for this year when we truly have no idea what is left and what our buck doe ratios are looking like etc.

Also they some how justified adding elk tags in 25/27. I know the elk on the sweat water are struggling pretty hard.

The herd was over objective, but not much… There again is a worry about bull cow ratio as that unit had a slightly older age class of bulls…

 

[DFS]

Took a quick look through the cuts and shortened season dates. When Montana is issuing 11k mule deer doe tags in addition to a general tag which is good for does, do we issue more muley doe tags in one region than Wyoming does for the whole state? It is nice to see a game agency respond even if the cuts maybe aren’t deep enough.

 

[appaloosa]

So in W they are expecting over 50% adult mortality, and right now they only dropped NR quota 20%. I would suspect they might want to match.

There appears to be only one general unit in the state where youth will be able to shot a mule deer doe, that is unit 100…. A unit that got destroyed by this winter and has a very small resident herd anyways. I am afraid that keeping that unit open to youth doe harvest will bring in hunters. It really can’t support doe harvest on a normal year as it has been below objective.

There are definitely units around lander that did not get enough cuts. It was bad here and all the way east of Riverton.

Lots are good but just a few areas where it feels like a little more. At least for this year when we truly have no idea what is left and what our buck doe ratios are looking like etc.

Also they some how justified adding elk tags in 25/27. I know the elk on the sweat water are struggling pretty hard.

The herd was over objective, but not much… There again is a worry about bull cow ratio as that unit had a slightly older age class of bulls…

I am generally supportive of the proposed changes and like that the majority of doe tags in the hard hit areas are now gone. I am reluctant to continue cutting tags, especially for bucks or bulls, just for the sake of cutting more tags. The Game and Fish has historically maintained ridiculously high buck ratios, especially for antelope. The populations will recover, regardless of whether we trim off a few more buck tags here and there.
Cutting tags for the sake of cutting tags is a slippery slope. Historically speaking, when cuts to tag numbers and season length occur, we rarely if ever get those back. Even when animals start to rebound, the conservative nature of the Department and a generally reluctant public rarely support increases. Just a fair warning from someone who has been around for a long time and witnessed this cycle occur over and over again. Be careful what you wish for, it will likely become status quo.

 

[Bluffgruff]

I am generally supportive of the proposed changes and like that the majority of doe tags in the hard hit areas are now gone. I am reluctant to continue cutting tags, especially for bucks or bulls, just for the sake of cutting more tags. The Game and Fish has historically maintained ridiculously high buck ratios, especially for antelope. The populations will recover, regardless of whether we trim off a few more buck tags here and there.
Cutting tags for the sake of cutting tags is a slippery slope. Historically speaking, when cuts to tag numbers and season length occur, we rarely if ever get those back. Even when animals start to rebound, the conservative nature of the Department and a generally reluctant public rarely support increases. Just a fair warning from someone who has been around for a long time and witnessed this cycle occur over and over again. Be careful what you wish for, it will likely become status quo.

You may be right a out season length cuts, but I have watched pronghorn tags reach highs, drop to unimaginable lows, then rebound, now get cut again. The animals will bounce back if the habitat will support them, and tags will follow suit in that case. No reason to leave tags in the pool if it's going to be a disappointment to those with the tag. Each species requires its own management strategy, both population level and buck/bulk:doe/cow, and trying to say antelope, deer, and elk are the same won't work out for the animals or hunters. Let the biologists do their jobs, unless you know more than them, somehow.

 

[JM77]

Even when animals start to rebound, the conservative nature of the Department and a generally reluctant public rarely support increases. Just a fair warning from someone who has been around for a long time and witnessed this cycle occur over and over again. Be careful what you wish for, it will likely become status quo.

I'm not sure what "Department" you are talking about, but it's not the Wy G&F I've known for the last forty plus years. There's no conservative nature that I've ever seen. About the only game animals I can think of that have maintained or increased in numbers are elk, lions, wolves and bears. The only reason elk have weathered the storm is large private refuges.

The reason the public is reluctant, is the G&F always want to increase opportunity before the herds are adequately recovered.

 

[antlerradar]

The reason the public is reluctant, is the G&F always want to increase opportunity before the herds are adequately recovered.

This belongs in the quote of the day thread.

 

[appaloosa]

Let the biologists do their jobs, unless you know more than them, somehow.

I specifically said I supported the revised regulations. The previous post is the one who claims to know more than the biologists and wants more tag cuts.

 

[appaloosa]

I'm not sure what "Department" you are talking about, but it's not the Wy G&F I've known for the last forty plus years. There's no conservative nature that I've ever seen. About the only game animals I can think of that have maintained or increased in numbers are elk, lions, wolves and bears. The only reason elk have weathered the storm is large private refuges.

The reason the public is reluctant, is the G&F always want to increase opportunity before the herds are adequately recovered.

Just sharing my 40+ years of experience on the other side of the state....

 

[BuzzH]

Just sharing my 40+ years of experience on the other side of the state....

I've lived here for over 20 years and in that time, the last 4-5 years I've seen a significant push to increase opportunity. IMO, too much at times for both deer and pronghorn specifically.

Since I moved here, pronghorn are not doing nearly as well as they were in just about every unit I've hunted. I've hunted pronghorn in about 20 units and I can't say any of them are better than when I last hunted them.

I think its ridiculous to make a claim that the GF is being too conservative with either pronghorn or deer.

You sound a lot like them recently, that every big-game animal in Wyoming has to end up a human turd or on someone's wall.

I like having high buck to doe, bull to cow ratio's in elk, deer, pronghorn, bighorns, moose, etc. herds and favor erroring on the side of conservative management VS shoot as much as you can.

 

[appaloosa]

I've lived here for over 20 years and in that time, the last 4-5 years I've seen a significant push to increase opportunity. IMO, too much at times for both deer and pronghorn specifically.

Since I moved here, pronghorn are not doing nearly as well as they were in just about every unit I've hunted. I've hunted pronghorn in about 20 units and I can't say any of them are better than when I last hunted them.

I think its ridiculous to make a claim that the GF is being too conservative with either pronghorn or deer.

You sound a lot like them recently, that every big-game animal in Wyoming has to end up a human turd or on someone's wall.

I like having high buck to doe, bull to cow ratio's in elk, deer, pronghorn, bighorns, moose, etc. herds and favor erroring on the side of conservative management VS shoot as much as you can.

I personally think bull ratios in the 50's and buck pronghorn ratios in the 60's are wasted opportunities, especially when my kids can not draw tags. That's just my opinion...

 

[JM77]

Just sharing my 40+ years of experience on the other side of the state....

Well apparently the G&F has different policies out west, except your deer and antelope herds are suffering the same fate as ours.

I'm also not sure "ridiculously" high buck/doe ratios is the proper way to describe those. I'm not sure what you are comparing them to. Personally, you won't get an argument from me that some areas have good or even great buck/doe ratios.

Also, I'm not too prone to commend removing the majority of doe tags in hard hit areas, when it should be all the doe tags removed. But it is helpful, no doubt.

 

[madtom]

I’d like WGF to implement an annual Groundhog Day-like ceremony, where Jeff comes out of his burrow and officially proclaims whether the herds have recovered or not.

 

[BuzzH]

I personally think bull ratios in the 50's and buck pronghorn ratios in the 80's are wasted opportunities, especially when my kids can not draw tags. That's just my opinion...

You're doing it wrong then.

I've had a bull elk tag and buck pronghorn tag every year I've lived in Wyoming. I think you need to learn more about draw strategies...if your kids aren't drawing pronghorn and elk tags, that's your fault.

I totally disagree, having a handful of very good units with higher bull and buck ratios is a great thing. Sure as shit isn't like every unit in the state is over run with high buck to doe and bull to cow ratios, that's a fact.

If you want opportunity go hunt Montana...it's wonderful.